voicesinmyhead
Main Eventer
Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,592
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 25, 2020 8:10:56 GMT -5
When did AEW claim that they wanted to be fantasy and comic book like? AEW claimed to be sports oriented so they should be more reality based pro wrestling. WWE is the non-reality based pro-wrestling and AEW is supposed to be the alternative. So, I don't think I am looking in the wrong place. I think they are not supplying what they promised their company would be. Also, I understand everyone will have different opinions, but why do people defend Marko Stunt? What does he provide to this company? He is only hurting their brand. well now that you know what the company is, maybe it isn't for you. and marko stunt is heavily marketable, especially in jurassic express. the average tv watcher does not take wrestling seriously whatsoever, he is damaging nothing. he's different, talented, and connecting to the audience. My point is the company isn't what is set out to be. The company turned into something it said it wouldn't be. That is not my fault that I wanted to watch what Cody promised AEW would be.
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Post by Bandalero on May 25, 2020 9:39:18 GMT -5
I think another thing to help the W/L records seem more legit is to be consistent with tracking single, tag/multi-partner, and specialty/gimmick-match records. Someone like Scorpio Sky has a 16-7 record currently which looks hella impressive and one would argue that he should be ranked on their singles chart, 'cept most of that is from his tag run.
This week AEW plans to have a battle royale right? Are they going to notch an L on everyone who doesn't end up winning the match?
If they choose to isolate gimmick matches then commentators can reflect on that record for that wrestler for that kind of match and sell it better e.g. Havok's deathmatch record, or Cody's steel cage record. Yes it a lot more numbers to track, but that's the appeal of real professional sports - everyone has stats and fans love to track stats.
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voicesinmyhead
Main Eventer
Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,592
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 25, 2020 10:03:57 GMT -5
I think another thing to help the W/L records seem more legit is to be consistent with tracking single, tag/multi-partner, and specialty/gimmick-match records. Someone like Scorpio Sky has a 16-7 record currently which looks hella impressive and one would argue that he should be ranked on their singles chart, 'cept most of that is from his tag run. This week AEW plans to have a battle royale right? Are they going to notch an L on everyone who doesn't end up winning the match? If they choose to isolate gimmick matches then commentators can reflect on that record for that wrestler for that kind of match and sell it better e.g. Havok's deathmatch record, or Cody's steel cage record. Yes it a lot more numbers to track, but that's the appeal of real professional sports - everyone has stats and fans love to track stats. If someone gets an L in a fatal four way match when not getting pinned, technically they should get an L for losing the battle royal.
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Post by Yambag Jones on May 25, 2020 10:43:53 GMT -5
I think another thing to help the W/L records seem more legit is to be consistent with tracking single, tag/multi-partner, and specialty/gimmick-match records. Someone like Scorpio Sky has a 16-7 record currently which looks hella impressive and one would argue that he should be ranked on their singles chart, 'cept most of that is from his tag run. This week AEW plans to have a battle royale right? Are they going to notch an L on everyone who doesn't end up winning the match? If they choose to isolate gimmick matches then commentators can reflect on that record for that wrestler for that kind of match and sell it better e.g. Havok's deathmatch record, or Cody's steel cage record. Yes it a lot more numbers to track, but that's the appeal of real professional sports - everyone has stats and fans love to track stats. If someone gets an L in a fatal four way match when not getting pinned, technically they should get an L for losing the battle royal. It depends on how they want to score it. These are semantics at this point.
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Post by Bandalero on May 25, 2020 11:36:11 GMT -5
If someone gets an L in a fatal four way match when not getting pinned, technically they should get an L for losing the battle royal. It depends on how they want to score it. These are semantics at this point. Yes to an extent. AEW is kayfabing W/L records; so losing a battle royale should notch an L to every single participation except the winner, however I think it's dumb to then factor that into their overall record. That's why Scorpio Sky has such a good looking record because the majority of his wins are from tag teams. AEW has been inconsistent with that too as I've seen sometimes they disclose just a wrestler's singles and tag team records and other times they just combine it all. It would make more sense to sell a wrestler as being "0-3 for battle royals" or having a "4-1 record in all cage matches he's been in"
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 21, 2024 8:55:21 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2020 11:46:36 GMT -5
It depends on how they want to score it. These are semantics at this point. Yes to an extent. AEW is kayfabing W/L records; so losing a battle royale should notch an L to every single participation except the winner, however I think it's dumb to then factor that into their overall record. That's why Scorpio Sky has such a good looking record because the majority of his wins are from tag teams. AEW has been inconsistent with that too as I've seen sometimes they disclose just a wrestler's singles and tag team records and other times they just combine it all. It would make more sense to sell a wrestler as being "0-3 for battle royals" or having a "4-1 record in all cage matches he's been in" The one good part is on the rankings they do specifically look at the singles or tag records. Ie only singles matches matter for singles rankings, etc. But yeah whenever they show records on tv I think they just pick whichever one makes the person look how they want ie Scorpio. I hope we get more records of those gimmick matches like you said. They constantly hype guys like havoc and Luther as being death match guys, only makes sense that someone is essentially king of the ladder match, etc.
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voicesinmyhead
Main Eventer
Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,592
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 25, 2020 11:54:41 GMT -5
If someone gets an L in a fatal four way match when not getting pinned, technically they should get an L for losing the battle royal. It depends on how they want to score it. These are semantics at this point. It’s not just semantics. If AEW wants to be different then WWE then there needs to be consistency and reliability. If they start saying this and that doesn’t matter than soon enough the wins and losses themselves won’t matter.
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 21, 2024 8:55:21 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2020 12:31:33 GMT -5
How has it been relatively sports centered when you have Marko Stunt, Orange Cassidy, Matt Hardy, and Michael Nakazawa? Those all take away from the sports feel? Also, my point about W/L wasn't about them mattering. My point about W/L was that it is ultimately going to hurt a lot of people because they won;t be bale to recover from their terrible record. I said that rankings didn't matter which is a different point entirely. 4 people is about 5% of their total roster right now. Nakazawa barely gets any tv time anyways. He's probably spent longer on BTE since the show launched than on Dynamite. I already explained a fair part of where I think they are still pretty sports centric, as well as what Cody said about it. I think if you read my post again, you can pretty much look at my comments about W/L as synonymous with rankings, I mention the rankings a lot, since they are connected. I fairly clearly (but wordily) explained why the rankings have mattered. To reiterate, #1 ranking =/= #1 contender. I don't know how they would give the #1 rank an advantage in a #1 contender match, but it could be cool. Maybe they get to choose the stipulation or something. The W/L records reset every year, or put in a more sports-centric way, every season. If you want a sports centered product, in a given season, you shouldn't be able to fully recovery from a terrible record. If you drop 15 of your first 20 games, you have no chance at making the playoffs that season. Orange Cassidy has gotten a ton of screen time, but the other thing AEW said they were going to do was consistently listen to their fans. If OC is getting a ton of screen time, it's because he's earned it. He's proven he's a ratings boost consistently. Blindly staying married to an original vision when the fans are telling you otherwise would be the exact opposite of what they set out to do. I still think they've done a good job of offering a relatively sports oriented product, as much as pro wrestling can be. Again, like Cody said (and I really wish I could track down where this was), it's still pro wrestling and they still want to offer everything wrestling has, including comedy. The goal was just to be more of a sports oriented product, i.e. have the titles mean something, have wins and losses matter, etc, etc. They've done that. I'm not saying I don't agree with some of your points, nor am I saying they are doing everything right and perfect. Of course not, they know they're going to make tons of mistakes too. Nor can they please everyone with everything they do. That's how things go. However, you seem to also be stuck on them not 'delivering what they promised' and I don't think that's accurate at all.
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Post by LK3 on May 25, 2020 17:25:17 GMT -5
I was kind of skimming his post and totally missed that part My bad.
So you agreed with my post without knowing, then claimed it doesn't matter, then admitted to not even reading my post? Why post here if you don't even know what I am trying to say? Your post? My response was to the long post by gardinermitch. Regardless, I guess I’ll try not to read long posts while at work anymore.👍🏻
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Post by K5 on May 25, 2020 17:31:05 GMT -5
well now that you know what the company is, maybe it isn't for you. and marko stunt is heavily marketable, especially in jurassic express. the average tv watcher does not take wrestling seriously whatsoever, he is damaging nothing. he's different, talented, and connecting to the audience. My point is the company isn't what is set out to be. The company turned into something it said it wouldn't be. That is not my fault that I wanted to watch what Cody promised AEW would be. cody vs lance comes across as two athletes in a david vs goliath situation going at it for the prestige of winning the tv title for the first time along with settling a massive feud that involves personal issues relevant to both men. i don't really know how much more sports oriented/serious you want to get? you'll lose the casual viewer if you make it a 1970s wrestling product.
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Post by Yambag Jones on May 25, 2020 19:43:04 GMT -5
It depends on how they want to score it. These are semantics at this point. It’s not just semantics. If AEW wants to be different then WWE then there needs to be consistency and reliability. If they start saying this and that doesn’t matter than soon enough the wins and losses themselves won’t matter. I mean does WWE do any record keeping? I’m pretty sure they don’t.
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voicesinmyhead
Main Eventer
Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,592
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 25, 2020 20:57:16 GMT -5
It’s not just semantics. If AEW wants to be different then WWE then there needs to be consistency and reliability. If they start saying this and that doesn’t matter than soon enough the wins and losses themselves won’t matter. I mean does WWE do any record keeping? I’m pretty sure they don’t. Yeah they do record keeping in terms of title reigns, and other thing as well. They don't have a win/loss record on screen, but that wasn't what I was talking about. I said they need to be different in terms of consistency and reliability.
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Post by K5 on May 25, 2020 22:12:49 GMT -5
I mean does WWE do any record keeping? I’m pretty sure they don’t. Yeah they do record keeping in terms of title reigns, and other thing as well. They don't have a win/loss record on screen, but that wasn't what I was talking about. I said they need to be different in terms of consistency and reliability. But you can change my words around. having won/loss records even mentioned when it’s not for the specific purpose of furthering a storyline - winning streaks, losing streaks, etc - is still a massive step up in both consistency and reliability in comparison to WWE. clearly aspects of the product aren’t living up to your expectations. that’s fair. I still think we are in many ways getting a great alternative. it’s not my perfect dream promotion either, but they’re doing a lot of things right imo and it’s been a fun ride.
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jking1979
Superstar
Joined on: Oct 3, 2019 20:00:02 GMT -5
Posts: 754
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Post by jking1979 on May 25, 2020 22:24:55 GMT -5
AEW Root Beer
They have all the great WCW talent like DDP, Dustin Rhodes and Arn Anderson backstage.
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Post by Nivro™ on May 25, 2020 22:51:54 GMT -5
Anyone that thought AEW was going to "change the game" were fooling themselves. All I heard was how they were going to hurt WWE's business and they've not even scratched it. The only thing they have hurt is exactly what I said they would hurt and that's the Indie scene. There's absolutely no star power/drawing power in the Indies right now outside of maybe Tessa & Marty.
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Post by OTC Waxbender on May 26, 2020 4:59:23 GMT -5
Anyone that thought AEW was going to "change the game" were fooling themselves. All I heard was how they were going to hurt WWE's business and they've not even scratched it. The only thing they have hurt is exactly what I said they would hurt and that's the Indie scene. There's absolutely no star power/drawing power in the Indies right now outside of maybe Tessa & Marty. "If you drink from the well, replenish the well." -King Ezekiel Don't worry about the indies going dry though, Vince is the king of making new stars for them with his mass firings.
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thespecialone
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 8, 2009 17:48:05 GMT -5
Posts: 2,762
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Post by thespecialone on May 26, 2020 8:52:56 GMT -5
They beat a WWE national TV show on ratings every single week. That's a game changer. At least for the last 20 years.
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 21, 2024 8:55:21 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2020 9:21:45 GMT -5
They beat a WWE national TV show on ratings every single week. That's a game changer. At least for the last 20 years. I think beating NXT every week is impressive. I think(and I'm not necessarily saying from this board) some people think AEW sucks is because they aren't getting numbers on par with Raw. That's unrealistic at this point!
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Post by Yambag Jones on May 26, 2020 9:57:40 GMT -5
Anyone that thought AEW was going to "change the game" were fooling themselves. All I heard was how they were going to hurt WWE's business and they've not even scratched it. The only thing they have hurt is exactly what I said they would hurt and that's the Indie scene. There's absolutely no star power/drawing power in the Indies right now outside of maybe Tessa & Marty. WWE is hurting WWE's business and if their rating keep tanking, AEW might start beating them. Anyone saying that Dynamite was going to draw better ratings than Raw or SmackDown was either delusional or over optimistic (probably both). Blaming AEW for the indie scene being bare is incredible tone deaf. WWE killed the UK scene and signed almost every big name on the indies since NXT set their sights on them.
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Post by Yambag Jones on May 26, 2020 10:02:36 GMT -5
I mean does WWE do any record keeping? I’m pretty sure they don’t. Yeah they do record keeping in terms of title reigns, and other thing as well. They don't have a win/loss record on screen, but that wasn't what I was talking about. I said they need to be different in terms of consistency and reliability. But you can change my words around. If AEW isn't what you expected, that's on you. The promotion is only a year old and had to change their show drastically because of the pandemic. No one said it'd be perfect. It is different, you can't say it isn't. I think they've delivered on being something new and better than WWE. Storylines are tight, most matches matter in the big picture, there's so much more consistency and reliability. WWE's tv product means anything week to week, let alone month to month, or year to year. If AEW doesn't do it for you, there's so much more out there to enjoy.
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