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Post by CM Tusk on Sept 18, 2021 18:48:38 GMT -5
Not to mention the fact that exposing yourself to people without consent is…..sexual abuse. It has been for longer than 20 years. It’s a crime. It doesn’t matter if her story is partially fabricated. It doesn’t matter the time period. It doesn’t matter if we’ve all known or just now have learned it. What the guy did, is some grimey sh**. I’ve known since it’s happened and I’ve alway thought he was a piece of sh** for doing it. I still enjoy his work, but that doesn’t mean other people have to. It also means that any company paying Ric, can decide to cut him lose once they’ve learned it. It’s not cancel culture. It’s not woke outrage. It’s taking a stand against sexual abuse.
Why people are having trouble with seeing why a lot of people have issues with this is beyond me.
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Post by Deep Figure Value on Sept 18, 2021 18:58:01 GMT -5
Y'all acting like her story came out this week.
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Thunder Chunky
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 1, 2010 21:57:30 GMT -5
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Post by Thunder Chunky on Sept 18, 2021 22:05:37 GMT -5
The amount of people defending sexual assault is disgusting. Just because it was 20 years ago doesn't mean it's not bad.
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Post by Nivro™ on Sept 18, 2021 23:11:46 GMT -5
The amount of people defending sexual assault is disgusting. Just because it was 20 years ago doesn't mean it's not bad. For the Ump-billionth time...Nobody is defending sexual assault...They're defending the fact that being "cancelled" shouldnt be a thing 20 years later especially when the subject you're being cancelled for has BEEN KNOWN for the last 20 years.
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Post by MKSavage on Sept 18, 2021 23:19:38 GMT -5
The amount of people defending sexual assault is disgusting. Just because it was 20 years ago doesn't mean it's not bad. For the Ump-billionth time...Nobody is defending sexual assault...They're defending the fact that being "cancelled" shouldnt be a thing 20 years later especially when the subject you're being cancelled for has BEEN KNOWN for the last 20 years. And, so far, the only one to be "cancelled" didn't commit a crime, he just spoke about the incident and gave his opinion on it (whether rightly or wrongly) based on what he heard.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 18, 2021 23:25:41 GMT -5
To be fair (to Flair) this is the first time I ever heard of him forcing the flight attendant to touch his penis too. I heard 20 years ago that he wore the robe with no clothes on underneath. But I legit never heard he tried to force her to touch "it" until the Dark Side of the Ring episode.
However, with that being said, I am not saying that it was right. Nobody said it was right. Nor would I ever say it is right for a man to force a woman/girl/grandma/alien whatever she may be to touch his junk in a sexual way that she didn't feel comfortable with.
The issue in all this is that the story is 20 years old. Instead of destroying Flair and Dreamer's lives, we should just have it be a learning lesson. I mean, Heidi Doyle learned to take money from the situation to keep her mouth shut apparently. Yet, she opened it just fine for the documentary, probably because she got more money to do so.
I know it's not money you would get from robbing a jewelry store, but she is doing okay for herself I am guessing.
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Thunder Chunky
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 1, 2010 21:57:30 GMT -5
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Post by Thunder Chunky on Sept 19, 2021 0:05:45 GMT -5
The amount of people defending sexual assault is disgusting. Just because it was 20 years ago doesn't mean it's not bad. For the Ump-billionth time...Nobody is defending sexual assault...They're defending the fact that being "cancelled" shouldnt be a thing 20 years later especially when the subject you're being cancelled for has BEEN KNOWN for the last 20 years. So we should just forget it happened then? Times change, standards change. It wasn't fine 20 years ago, it's not fine now. There are people in this thread trying to discredit the victim. That's disgusting. There are many other people in the wrestling business that have said Flair used to do this crap all the time. Why is this one time so hard to believe? It doesn't matter if people 20 years ago thought it was fine (it wasn't). Wrestlers get away with a crap ton of stuff because in the general public, who actually gives a crap about pro wrestling? If you don't want to get cancelled for sexual assault, don't sexually assault someone. It's not that hard.
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The Real Chillary
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Chillary since day one ish
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Post by The Real Chillary on Sept 19, 2021 0:25:01 GMT -5
Wrestlers get away with it because of the trash people turning a blind eye, much like in this thread.
And I'm not surprised it's the same usual suspects that side against 'canceling' whenever these threads come around. Saying you're against cancel culture and not sexaul abuse is just changing the goal posts. You just don't want anything to happen to your hero wrestlers, and will argue against the idea of them being racist and sexual abusers just because you don't want anything to happen to them, regardless if they're guilty or not. Again, I'm sure things would be different if you actually knew people who were victims.
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wolf
Jobber
Joined on: Dec 21, 2016 8:34:21 GMT -5
Posts: 2
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Post by wolf on Sept 19, 2021 1:26:44 GMT -5
Wrestlers get away with it because of the trash people turning a blind eye, much like in this thread. And I'm not surprised it's the same usual suspects that side against 'canceling' whenever these threads come around. Saying you're against cancel culture and not sexaul abuse is just changing the goal posts. You just don't want anything to happen to your hero wrestlers, and will argue against the idea of them being racist and sexual abusers just because you don't want anything to happen to them, regardless if they're guilty or not. Again, I'm sure things would be different if you actually knew people who were victims. what do you expect from a fully grown, super obsessed weirdo that has an entire wall dedicated to a female wrestler, who isn’t even aware of his existence? do you really think he has the correct mindset to be able to grasp the severity of the situation at hand, let alone know how to treat or show compassion to a woman? lord only knows what that altar was built for...
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Post by PJ on Sept 19, 2021 3:37:09 GMT -5
Ok and right there this will be the one and only warning put out there before it gets locked. I think I have been pretty tolerant with this thread so far but that said there will not be going after other members with different views than yours. You will keep the conversation to the show without name calling and/or belittling other members. If that simple rule can’t be followed this thread will be locked.
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Sept 19, 2021 7:28:27 GMT -5
I just seen this on Facebook on a wrestling group.
Apparently the flight attendant has her own history that could be on a Dark Side of the Sky episode if there was one! Ha ha ha
I find myself siding with Dreamer now
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Post by cordless2016 on Sept 19, 2021 8:29:33 GMT -5
For the Ump-billionth time...Nobody is defending sexual assault...They're defending the fact that being "cancelled" shouldnt be a thing 20 years later especially when the subject you're being cancelled for has BEEN KNOWN for the last 20 years. So we should just forget it happened then? Times change, standards change. It wasn't fine 20 years ago, it's not fine now. There are people in this thread trying to discredit the victim. That's disgusting. There are many other people in the wrestling business that have said Flair used to do this crap all the time. Why is this one time so hard to believe? It doesn't matter if people 20 years ago thought it was fine (it wasn't). Wrestlers get away with a crap ton of stuff because in the general public, who actually gives a crap about pro wrestling? If you don't want to get cancelled for sexual assault, don't sexually assault someone. It's not that hard. If you think “times change, standards change” means that sexual abuse and rape were accepted 20 years ago, you’re an idiot. Nobody said it was fine 20 years ago. you’re just reading what you want to hear. The issue isn’t the sexual abuse allegations. We already said that’s a serious accusation that shouldn’t be taken lightly. The issue is this story being known for 20 years (and others about Flair for decades). As soon as the plane landed 20 years ago, Meltzer and others were reporting on the incident. It was reported, yet no charges were filed at the time. Hell, the flight attendant accepted money to keep quiet despite the seriousness of the situation (she chose the money over speaking out against the man that forced himself on her). So, should we be going after Flair decades later when nobody went after him then despite the stories being well know? We’ve already established rape wasn’t ok 20 years ago. The issue is the story being known, and the flight attendant accepting money to not say anything despite the seriousness of the situation. This also isn’t a Harvey Weinstein situation where all this information was covered up and hidden. This story was available to the public from the moment the plane landed. If anything, call the WWE and the wrestling business as a whole out for their BS and the culture they created. They allowed Flair and others to act this way.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 19, 2021 9:41:20 GMT -5
So a couple things...
My girlfriend watches Dark Side of the Ring with me, and she has been actually putting a lot of thought into the Flair plane ride story.
She said, "if Heidi Doyle took money to keep quiet all those years ago, isn't she going against what she was paid to do now buy talking about it?? Doesn't that go against the legal documents that she signed once accepting the money 20 years ago??"
Another thing she said, "where were the other woman at when Flair came onto Heidi?? Didn't she say there were other flight attendants up on the plane with her?? If so, why didn't they stop it from happening??"
I just find it strange that the only time I ever hear of Flair forcing her to touch his penis is now in the year 2021, when this story is pretty much 20 years old. The being naked on the plane with the robe, we knew of. Showing everyone on the plane his junk, we knew of. But the grabbing of the penis in a forceful way?? That legit was news to me!
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The Real Chillary
Main Eventer
Chillary since day one ish
Joined on: Aug 23, 2016 15:32:38 GMT -5
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Post by The Real Chillary on Sept 19, 2021 10:43:58 GMT -5
Let it be known that Shane Douglas is not a beacon of light. Just another wrestler scum bag piece of crap.
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Thunder Chunky
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 1, 2010 21:57:30 GMT -5
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Post by Thunder Chunky on Sept 19, 2021 10:56:36 GMT -5
So we should just forget it happened then? Times change, standards change. It wasn't fine 20 years ago, it's not fine now. There are people in this thread trying to discredit the victim. That's disgusting. There are many other people in the wrestling business that have said Flair used to do this crap all the time. Why is this one time so hard to believe? It doesn't matter if people 20 years ago thought it was fine (it wasn't). Wrestlers get away with a crap ton of stuff because in the general public, who actually gives a crap about pro wrestling? If you don't want to get cancelled for sexual assault, don't sexually assault someone. It's not that hard. If you think “times change, standards change” means that sexual abuse and rape were accepted 20 years ago, you’re an idiot. Nobody said it was fine 20 years ago. you’re just reading what you want to hear. The issue isn’t the sexual abuse allegations. We already said that’s a serious accusation that shouldn’t be taken lightly. The issue is this story being known for 20 years (and others about Flair for decades). As soon as the plane landed 20 years ago, Meltzer and others were reporting on the incident. It was reported, yet no charges were filed at the time. Hell, the flight attendant accepted money to keep quiet despite the seriousness of the situation (she chose the money over speaking out against the man that forced himself on her). So, should we be going after Flair decades later when nobody went after him then despite the stories being well know? We’ve already established rape wasn’t ok 20 years ago. The issue is the story being known, and the flight attendant accepting money to not say anything despite the seriousness of the situation. This also isn’t a Harvey Weinstein situation where all this information was covered up and hidden. This story was available to the public from the moment the plane landed. If anything, call the WWE and the wrestling business as a whole out for their BS and the culture they created. They allowed Flair and others to act this way. There are people that are defending it in this thread. Go read some of the responses. Hell, one guy said that if you didn't know Flair liked to walk around with his dick out then you weren't a real wrestling fan.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 19, 2021 11:55:40 GMT -5
For the amount of hate on here for these legends, then why are any of you wrestling fans?? People aren't perfect. I bet each and every one of you on here saying how horrible Flair is, has a few hidden skeletons in the closet as well. We all do!
So how about we just stop bashing Flair for what he did. I don't believe in the last 20 years Ric Flair has done ANYTHING like that again so he clearly learned his lesson then and has moved on.
The fact you people want to keep bring up how horrible Flair is and trying to say we are condoning such behaviour is ridiculous. Everyone on here said, "what Flair did 20 years ago wasn't right" we all said it. But you people seem to ignore that part and just hear the part where we say, "but that was 20 years ago and times were different then." We all know it wasn't right then! Nobody on here say, "Man, wasn't it the best when you could walk up to a girl and ram your junk in their face and get away with it?!" NOT ONE PERSON SAID THAT!
We are all just saying that times were different then, rules weren't as forced as today with how we treat women. We grow as people, and we are always going to grow. We can't hold grudges on things that happened 20 years ago, but a lot of people now a days do. It's like, "the world is so boring now, let's see what we can find 25 years ago to create an uproar about and see if we can change that now, yay!"
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Post by rkmo: Autonomous Meat Shield on Sept 19, 2021 13:29:33 GMT -5
Discussing past transgressions of idols and role models that were previously held up on pedestals isn't blind "hate", that IS acknowledging them as imperfect human beings. And while sexual assaults aren't specifically things that were explicitly acceptable in the recent past, the prevailing view now is that these allegations deserve to be handled with a bit more seriousness and the stigma should no longer be on the victims. No longer must the victim deserve the blame for "asking for it", or "she put herself in that situation", or "she should've done more to prevent it", or "buyer's remorse". (This isn't the norm of course, not by a longshot, but steps are slowly, painfully being taken.) And you see on here and everywhere else those lamenting for "the good ol' days" where people weren't "snowflakes", where you can openly use discriminatory and vulgar language or explicit and sexually-charged comments about a woman's looks without fear of repercussion because it's done for the sake of "comedic entertainment", as Ric's behavior would be classified as.
And I do see Flair himself as a victim of sorts. Not of "CaNCeL CuLTuRe", but of whatever issues he has coped with by wearing this flamboyant persona for the majority of his life. Many times he has described not finding contentment with a quiet life and resorting back to the partying and extravagant spending. And this behavior had largely been met positively by co-workers and fans who admired him for this "dedication". For decades, most around him and who looked up to him had welcomed and egged on this self-destructive and attention-seeking behavior because they wanted to witness "the legend" and it was just "Naitch being Naitch". Not to mention this all was occurring in an industry that is notoriously strenuous on body and mind, operating in a Wild West atmosphere of celebrity and privilege.
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jason1980s
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Post by jason1980s on Sept 19, 2021 13:51:46 GMT -5
And I do see Flair himself as a victim of sorts. Not of "CaNCeL CuLTuRe", but of whatever issues he has coped with by wearing this flamboyant persona for the majority of his life. Many times he has described not finding contentment with a quiet life and resorting back to the partying and extravagant spending. And this behavior had largely been met positively by co-workers and fans who admired him for this "dedication". For decades, most around him and who looked up to him had welcomed and egged on this self-destructive and attention-seeking behavior because they wanted to witness "the legend" and it was just "Naitch being Naitch". Not to mention this all was occurring in an industry that is notoriously strenuous on body and mind, operating in a Wild West atmosphere of celebrity and privilege. Your post is spot on. And I have felt for the last few years that Flair's mental growth was stunted in his childhood. Much like Vince McMahon who grew up without his real father and Flair growing up with adopted parents, I feel like there should be just as much reason to study their brains post mortum as anyone who has received a concussion. Both men seemingly do not know right from wrong. And I'm sure early childhood mental or emotional trauma plays a part in that. It would not surprise me at all if more women come forward with similar allegations against Ric. The plane scandal is not an isolated incident, I'm sure. Ric's friends and fans, like some on this thread better be ready to help him with his legal bills because, based on his past, he sure won't be paying them!
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Angusdacat
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Post by Angusdacat on Sept 19, 2021 14:21:57 GMT -5
Whole lot of people in this thread who know nothing about how sexual assault cases work nor the trauma on its victims. There are many, many reasons why people don't speak up/wait to speak up as well as many reasons as to why they settle out of court. I've seen awful, awful things happen to SA survivors for even ATTEMPTING to speak up, and the fact that so many are quick to belittle and defame her only furthers the point.
People are kidnapped and/or killed for political protest in this country and beyond. Losing a few months of work and then getting paid to do interviews/podcasts afterwards is not being cAnCeLED and a majority of the time the SA survivors lose far more work and reputation than anyone they'd ever accuse.
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The Real Chillary
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Chillary since day one ish
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Post by The Real Chillary on Sept 19, 2021 14:28:41 GMT -5
so many are quick to belittle and defame her only furthers the point. One of the most glaring examples of that hasn't really been spoken about, which confuses me. Terri. She herself gives of an account of being a victim of sexual abuse, then finishes the episode saying "Imagine if I went to court over every time I've had something to me", hand waving her.
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