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Post by kgchampion on Apr 13, 2023 2:58:02 GMT -5
$400 for the WCW stage makes sense to me and here's why. Here is the very first entrance stage Mattel made. It is not in scale. It was mass-produced around 2011 or 2012 and exclusive to K-Mart. I think it retailed for $50. It has a few sound clips from a speaker in the stage that sound pretty bad and some lights in the main tron. It's largely made up of big hunks of plastic with very little detail. It's got some moveable lights on the stage. The main tron is a sticker of John Cena and the mini trons are clear with flimsy pieces of paper with a backdrop printed on one side inserted. The headboard on the top is cardboard. You can barely line the Kliq up along the stage. I personally love this toy, but it's not very wide. This is the entrance stage equivalent to Mattel's basic $20 rings.   Again, that stage had enough inventory produced to ideally stock every Kmart in the U.S. back when K-Marts were all over the country. The next stage Mattel made was not a store exclusive. It was produced for mass retail and stocked in Target, Walmart, Toys R Us, Amazon, RSC, anywhere willing to give the shelf space for it. I think I got it at Target for $50. It had even less detail than the Kmart stage. The sound feature is gone. It's got a couple LEDs at the base of the mini trons. Even the sculpted lights on the sides of the stage no longer move. Some hokey breakaway features were added for the kids. The mini trons are just blank, clear plastic. No stickers on them. The main tron is a card board picture of Cena. The main feature of this is that you can put a tablet in the tron and play entrance videos from an app Mattel made. That's a pretty brilliant feature. And there's a piece of cardboard on top you can flip around that says Raw/Smackdown on either side. Again, you can barely fit enough figures on this. Both of these toy entrance stages are the same width and nearly the same depth and height, although the second one is slightly shorter than the K-Mart one.   So these previous stages mass retailed for $50. I'm guessing at least a hundred thousand units produced each. They were bare bones. They were fairly tall, but no where near in scale. And they were maybe a foot and a half wide. Now compare that to the WCW stage from the crowdfund. Loaded to the gills with tons of LEDs everywhere. Spotlights. Fabric banners attached to highly detailed trusses. The detail in the diamond-patterned WCW letters is exquisite. Those letters themselves are massive and taller than the figures. The trusses that make up the entrance arch are highly detailed compared to the trusses on previous entrance stages. There's a little chain-link fence behind the entrance arch with a small, highly detailed WCW Monday Nitro logo. The grating on the floor and ramp looks like actual grating. The entire stage is 3.3ft wide. You could put the two entrance stages above side-by-side and the WCW stage will be wider. The thing is massive and every inch is packed with realistic detail.    Considering that first two entrance stages I showed were mass retail releases that are comparatively small with very little detail, I think it makes perfect sense that the size, the amount of detail, and the electronics being put into the WCW stage earns its $400 price tag for 5,000 units minimum produced. If it's too big for you, I understand. If it's too expensive for you, I understand. But it makes total sense to me why it's priced at what it is even without all the extra figures. If it was being produced at 100,000 units, then $400 would make less sense. But it isn't. It's being produced at a minimum of 5,000 units if it gets funded. The cost makes sense to me. |
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philster
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Post by philster on Apr 13, 2023 3:36:05 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly. I backed 2 of em.
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triplehpotter7
Superstar
Passionate about all I love in life. ^_^
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Post by triplehpotter7 on Apr 13, 2023 3:53:12 GMT -5
100% correct; hell, a competing website ripped off the latter stage design and they want double plus in price than the original 2nd Mattel stage. I own both of those Mattel stages and they're cheap lunch meat garbage compared to this WCW Nitro stage. It's obvious to see why Mattel did this and makes sense; I just wish more people had an understanding about it and were kinder with their words, even if they disagree about something about it.
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Warriah'
Main Eventer
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Post by Warriah' on Apr 13, 2023 4:11:10 GMT -5
$400? Sure
Problem has always been charging everyone outside the US $626 plus postage.
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Post by GreyHaze:Big Bad Booty Daddy on Apr 13, 2023 4:13:17 GMT -5
I accepted the price a while back. At first, it hit hard because it was $400 and the selection/attire choices. However, when you realize that you could get all the figures it's not bad. Most people here spend more than $400 a year when it comes to figures if you add up expenses. Especially, those who preorder. I quickly warmed up to the figures. The only problem is getting people to fund it. I haven't bought many figures in the last year and a half so I see this as a treat and once in the lifetime toy, because it truly is. The last time we got a Nitro stage it was in the late 90s early 2000s, I believe. I'm low-key upset that we didn't get Hogan... Mind you, I'm not a Hulk Hogan kind of guy and wouldn't give a damn if we didn't get another red and yellow trunks version. However, with the set as a bonus??? As a kid, I loved Hollywood though.
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Post by Mongo Bears on Apr 13, 2023 5:43:38 GMT -5
Id have no problem with the $400 even with no figures included
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Post by Cammi Oh on Apr 13, 2023 5:57:14 GMT -5
I wasn't a fan of WCW and have no desire to display this. Therefore, no, it is NOT worth $400 to me. I see no value in it as a collector.
I'm glad you like it and hope it makes minimum tier but we don't have to put money towards things we don't want out of fear or missing a future crowd fund.
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Post by micco on Apr 13, 2023 5:58:29 GMT -5
Facts! Then consider that even with only 5000 made we get one (and now it’s looking like maybe two) ultimate figure(s) that retail for 30 a piece. So it’s like they’re charging possibly as little as 340 for the stage that’s three times the size of those mass produced stages with infinitely more detail. It’s a steal if you ask me.
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Post by micco on Apr 13, 2023 6:07:49 GMT -5
I wasn't a fan of WCW and have no desire to display this. Therefore, no, it is NOT worth $400 to me. I see no value in it as a collector. I'm glad you like it and hope it makes minimum tier but we don't have to put money towards things we don't want out of fear or missing a future crowd fund. The value was just explained. You may have no interest but how can you not see the value? I don’t collect comics but I see the value in owning Action Comics issue # 1 that features the first appearance of Superman. The value has actually already been determined and it has nothing to do with if I’m interested in owning it or not. And if I could get my hands on one for a price I deemed a bargain, I would. It would only go up in value. I believe the same is true for the stage because it’s already priced reasonably and they ain’t never gonna make nothing like this again. But I understand not being interested and that matters more than value to some collectors, especially those who aren’t concerned with owning rare items and their collectibles appreciating |
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figdrip
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Joined on: Jul 19, 2021 20:40:22 GMT -5
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Post by figdrip on Apr 13, 2023 6:12:35 GMT -5
Nah still isn’t worth $400. Figures retail for $30 a pop, I got a hard time believing the stage would cost $280 to produce, and that would be at max backers with all figures.... never mind the lackluster attire choices.
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Post by Rocket_Fuel_Merchant on Apr 13, 2023 7:31:43 GMT -5
Nah still isn’t worth $400. Figures retail for $30 a pop, I got a hard time believing the stage would cost $280 to produce, and that would be at max backers with all figures.... never mind the lackluster attire choices. First of all, Ultimates don't retail for $30 a pop. That's just lying...Additionally, this isn't a charity that Mattel is running. At 5-11k units this is a ridiculously small run item for a company like Mattel. At 11k units produced, that wouldn't even be enough for each Target and Walmart in the US to get 2 units, and that doesn't include anyone internationally. Even if it costs $250 to produce, Mattel needs to turn a profit |
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Post by PJ on Apr 13, 2023 7:57:19 GMT -5
Ultimates are $35 and change at the Targets around here.
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Post by stc13 on Apr 13, 2023 8:19:17 GMT -5
Compare the size, detail, and tooling needed for the stage with any other crowdfunded item. It's absolutely a $400 piece. And the figures for other projects have been bare bones, low deco, low budget figs with minimal new tooling and of throwaway characters. These are premium figures of top stars, even if they aren't the attire people wanted the most.
It's a objectively a really good package. Clearly the demand isn't there. But Mattel brought a very good product to market, and have continued looking for ways to get this made. If you don't want it, don't think it's worth the cost for how you collect, or aren't able/willing to pay what it would cost, that's perfectly fine. But the constant negativity is exhausting.
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Post by micco on Apr 13, 2023 8:23:13 GMT -5
Nah still isn’t worth $400. Figures retail for $30 a pop, I got a hard time believing the stage would cost $280 to produce, and that would be at max backers with all figures.... never mind the lackluster attire choices. According to Steve the stage alone should actually retail for more than 400. I will assume he means that given their normal profit margins it should be more than 400. I don’t know what their normal margins are so I don’t know how close to cost they’re selling it for. But as a business I wouldn’t expect them to sell an item at anything near the cost it is to produce the item. They’re supposed to make money. So your point about what it costs to produce is really irrelevant. Businesses don’t sell products for what it costs to produce them. |
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Post by Rocket_Fuel_Merchant on Apr 13, 2023 8:31:40 GMT -5
Nah still isn’t worth $400. Figures retail for $30 a pop, I got a hard time believing the stage would cost $280 to produce, and that would be at max backers with all figures.... never mind the lackluster attire choices. According to Steve the stage alone should actually retail for more than 400. I will assume he means that given their normal profit margins it should be more than 400. I don’t know what their normal margins are so I don’t know how close to cost they’re selling it for. But as a business I wouldn’t expect them to sell an item at anything near the cost it is to produce the item. They’re supposed to make money. So your point about what it costs to produce is really irrelevant. Businesses don’t sell products for what it costs to produce them. Right...so either we're questioning Steve's integrity and saying that he is lying to us about how much the Stage should cost, or we're looking at a $400 item. NOW, if someone can't personally justify spending $400 on this, that is fine. But basically spreading lies about what it should, or shouldn't cost doesn't do any good. |
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Apr 13, 2023 8:42:24 GMT -5
And a certain figure company must’ve bought those molds and are now selling a stripped down version of the 2 in 1 stage for $130.
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mcgourlay
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Post by mcgourlay on Apr 13, 2023 8:53:38 GMT -5
Take this for what it's worth,
I'm a buyer for a UK mobile device charging company, we design, in house, rugged chargers for hand held devices/tablets/etc.
We use Chinese factory facilities to produce our products, so I have experience in mould costs/sizes/etc.
The last mould we had made cost us $3,100USD and that was for a three chamber mould, with each piece measuring no more than 7 x 3 x 2 cms.
For those three pieces, each of which fits easily into your hand, the mold size was 25 x 30 x 26cms, weighed 150kg and was good for 300,000 uses.
Looking at the size of the stage and how many parts it may take to fit togeteher I can see where every penny of the $400 goes, and can totally see why Steve says it should be more than $400 retail, think of all the added costs that people don't see.
RND costs, sample costs, packaging costs (think of the new gen box), outer box costs, LED costs, PCB programming costs, wiring costs, shipping costs
And that is before thinking of extra costs of thee figures and soft goods.
I'm not even sure that there is a profit margin in this at all, if it makes it to the minimum backers, all Mattel would be left with is reusable assets for something else down the line which the costs could be amortized across various projects in the future.
Just my two penneth,
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Post by Rocket_Fuel_Merchant on Apr 13, 2023 8:59:00 GMT -5
Take this for what it's worth, I'm a buyer for a UK mobile device charging company, we design, in house, rugged chargers for hand held devices/tablets/etc. We use Chinese factory facilities to produce our products, so I have experience in mould costs/sizes/etc. The last mould we had made cost us $3,100USD and that was for a three chamber mould, with each piece measuring no more than 7 x 3 x 2 cms. For those three pieces, each of which fits easily into your hand, the mold size was 25 x 30 x 26cms, weighed 150kg and was good for 300,000 uses. Looking at the size of the stage and how many parts it may take to fit togeteher I can see where every penny of the $400 goes, and can totally see why Steve says it should be more than $400 retail, think of all the added costs that people don't see. RND costs, sample costs, packaging costs (think of the new gen box), outer box costs, LED costs, PCB programming costs, wiring costs, shipping costs And that is before thinking of extra costs of thee figures and soft goods. I'm not even sure that there is a profit margin in this at all, if it makes it to the minimum backers, all Mattel would be left with is reusable assets for something else down the line which the costs could be amortized across various projects in the future. Just my two penneth, Stop making such logical arguments |
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natureboyfauser
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Post by natureboyfauser on Apr 13, 2023 9:12:18 GMT -5
This was a well-designed thread opening to show the factual value. Which means the facts of life to produce this is a fact not an opinion. Opinions on whether it has value to them personally are their opinion. In my opinion, it has all of the value and more. I love the look, the detail, the lights, the long-awaited Steiner and the WCW time in my life. So I got mine the second it was available and hope others get it. Again, I have the Raw and Smackdown entrance stage as shown above ... and probably will not get a new one if they design a bigger and better one ... but what I won't do is go on a future thread and tell people it doesn't have value to me and be negative ... because I would hope that those that want it get it. In fact, I'm not sure why someone would take their time to even come to this thread if they didn't want it? Hmmmmmm. I wonder what the agenda is.
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Post by MKSavage on Apr 13, 2023 9:40:07 GMT -5
It would cost more than 400 dollars at retail. If it costs 400 to make (including the added amount to turn a profit, I can't see them making this to break even), then once the retail stores purchase it from Mattel (at $400) then those stores are going to up the prices so they can make money too. They are not going to pay Mattel $400 to purchase the thing then turn around and sell it for $400, they'd make no money. You're probably looking at closer to $480 at retail - at the lowest. Same thing with the figures, it doesn't cost $35 to make the UE figures ($24 for elites), it probably costs half of that, maybe a little more. The retail stores are the ones to mark it up so they can make a profit too. So, for Mattel, $400 is what it costs them to be able to make the entrance and the Rey figure (and maybe one more figure if they were able to add a Hogan figure). They wouldn't make any money off of this, and they would probably lose money if they sold the entrance stage and the 5 figures with only 5,000 backers. They need to make at least 11K of these to be able to make enough profit to throw in/include 3 more figures.
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