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Post by spawnsyxx9 on Sept 3, 2008 10:14:07 GMT -5
I have to say that I have seen many of you members talking about whether Brock even deserves the title shot and after talking it over with some of my friends I really have to say I don't think he does.
I agree that sure.. down the line if he racks up more wins he does. But for right now, I don't think that he should.
Kongo and Coleman should have been his next fights IMO.
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Post by 6 seasons and a movie on Sept 3, 2008 10:33:57 GMT -5
I don't think he deserves a shot yet but in that division who does? With Randy coming back Brock in maybe the best pick to go againist him as it is a MMA legend for a guy who alot of MMA fans don't like because he came for pro wrestling. The fight should be good and make alot of money for the UFC.
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on Sept 3, 2008 10:45:55 GMT -5
The bottom line is, nobody in that division INCLUDING Nogueira is a bigger potential PPV draw vs. Randy Couture than Brock Lesnar. That's why Brock was main eventing as a rookie in the first place, and that's why he's fighting Randy Couture in November.
The title, unfortunately, is almost an afterthought for this fight. The goal here isn't to give the most worthy opponent a title shot. The goal is to bring back Randy Couture (a good-to-great PPV draw) against the opponent that is most likely to draw the highest possible PPV buyrate.
That guy is Brock Lesnar. And it drives some people crazy, but it's a fact. Welcome to a star-driven U.S. culture.
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Post by Codesters on Sept 3, 2008 10:52:25 GMT -5
Lesnar draws good payouts. This fight isn't really in the favor of the true MMA fans who want to see Noguiera or Coleman get a fight. It's more of a which fight will draw more money type deal.
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lonedog
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Post by lonedog on Sept 3, 2008 11:04:00 GMT -5
Of course he deserves a title shot.......MMA is not like boxing where you build up your record usually against lots of bums then fight 1 or 2 decents fighters then get a shot.But the main reason why is his the biggest draw and moneymaker right now and Brock is the real deal.It's not like his a big draw and a bum.His first fight in UFC is against the former champion,who he was going to tko until the ref prematurely stood them up.His next fight he destroys a good fighter who's fight some of the greatest fighters in the world.So imo opinion it's time,the fight will be huge and if his going to fight Randy then why not have the title on the line.
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Post by 6 seasons and a movie on Sept 3, 2008 11:12:23 GMT -5
This is the best fight the UFC could have put together both money wise and matchup wise for Randy to fight by the end of the year. With the other top 2 heavyweights already booked for a fight, Brock is the guy that can help bring in money and the fact with both having wresting backgrounds and the size difference should lead to a big build up to the fight and hopefully a fight that brings the heavyweight divsion a little more respect.
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DWright
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Post by DWright on Sept 3, 2008 13:03:06 GMT -5
I easily say yes.
If not Lesnar, who else deserves a shot at the title?
From another post:
Fabricio Werdum - He's beat Gabrial Gonzaga (extremely over rated, only beat CC...who looked awful in the UFC) and Brandon Vera (a true LHW) (also scheduled to face Junior dos Santos in October)
Gabrial Gonzaga - As said, very over rated. Lost 2 in a row (including his title shot) and has only beat Justin McCully since.
Cain Valasquez - Has beat Brad Morris and Jake O'Brien, neither are quality opponents. At least, not quality enough to deserve a title shot.
Shane Carwin - Has only beat Christian Wellisch, not exactly a top ranked quality opponent. (also scheduled to face Neil Wain in October)
Cheick Kongo - Lost to Heath Herring (who Lesnar destroyed), since beat Dan Evensen.
Heath Herring - defeated by Brock Lesnar.
Frank Mir defeated Antoni Hardonk (can) and Brock Lesnar (in his 2nd ever fight, first in the UFC) and received a HW title shot. If Mir can get a shot by defeating Hardonk and a guy in his 2nd ever fight, first in the UFC...how is it such a stretch to see Lesnar get a title shot after dominating a legit opponent?
Randy vs Lesnar = buyrates. The fact that the HW division was so weak, for so long, made this fight legit.
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on Sept 3, 2008 13:23:44 GMT -5
I'll add that it's apparently very difficult for foreign fighters to become big draws in the U.S. Anderson Silva had to destroy everyone in his path for a year and a half before he caught on (and he's still not a star of the Liddell/Rampage level, but he's a lot closer now than he was six months ago).
Nogueira's only real appeal to the casual fan is the fact that he's (interim) champion. If he didn't have the belt, he'd lose whatever small measure of drawing power he's got now (which isn't a ton).
It's kind of a shame, because they don't come much better than Nogueira. It's just another example that no matter how good the fighter is, at the end of the day, your charisma can be just as big a factor (of not bigger) in how many tickets or PPV buys you can sell.
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Post by Mr. Orange on Sept 3, 2008 15:28:44 GMT -5
I would have liked to have seen Brock fight a couple more times before the title shot, but I'm ok with him getting it because everyone else is tied up.
If TUF wasn't happening, it should have been Nogueira/Couture to unify the titles, Brock/Werdum for number 1 contender, and then have the winners square off. But since Nog/Mir and Werdum are all tied up for a while, I'm fine with Brock getting the shot. Why have Randy wait until April/May to fight next? Brock is there and it will be big money draw.
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Post by Mr. Old School™ on Sept 3, 2008 15:47:30 GMT -5
Do I think Brock deserves the shot at the belt?? Yes. Do I think it's a bit early and he may have jumped ahead of others?? Yes. But remember, Dana White is a business man and a very smart one at that. He knows what fans want to see and how to make money.
And no doubt about it, Randy Couture vs. Brock Lesnar is what fans want to see and it will definitely make money and ALOT of it. Enough said.
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Post by moogie101 on Sept 3, 2008 16:06:59 GMT -5
As a PPV draw I say yes.
Taking into consideration the other fighters available I say Yes. Herring, Kongo, Gonzaga have either had their shot or lost recently. Werdum isn't marketable enough especially after his snoozefest UFC debut losing to Arlovski. Cain Velasquez isn't enough of a name yet nor he has a beaten any name fighters to warrant it. Mir & Nog are tied up with TUF & the Interim strap.
Taking into consideration Brock is 2.1 in his MMA career I say No.
I might not like it personally but I understand the business reasons for doing so.
No-one else on the UFC roster deserves or is ready for the shot. All other names Fedor, Crocop, Alistair Overeem, mark Hunt, Kharitonov, Barnett, Arlovski etc are tied up with contracts elsewhere. who else is available?
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DWright
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Post by DWright on Sept 3, 2008 16:19:56 GMT -5
As a PPV draw I say yes. Taking into consideration the other fighters available I say Yes. Herring, Kongo, Gonzaga have either had their shot or lost recently. Werdum isn't marketable enough especially after his snoozefest UFC debut losing to Arlovski. Cain Velasquez isn't enough of a name yet nor he has a beaten any name fighters to warrant it. Mir & Nog are tied up with TUF & the Interim strap. Taking into consideration Brock is 2.1 in his MMA career I say No. I might not like it personally but I understand the business reasons for doing so. No-one else on the UFC roster deserves or is ready for the shot. All other names Fedor, Crocop, Alistair Overeem, mark Hunt, Kharitonov, Barnett, Arlovski etc are tied up with contracts elsewhere. who else is available? Mark Hunt should never step into a UFC octagon...let alone get a title shot. But I'll agree with the rest. The UFC doesn't have any other HW to put in that position. Therefore, it's Brock. Simple. |
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Post by moogie101 on Sept 3, 2008 17:19:08 GMT -5
Mark Hunt should never step into a UFC octagon...let alone get a title shot. quote] Why? 2001 K1 Grand Prix Champion & wins over Wandy & Crocop are hardly to be sneezed at. I reckon he'd be a threat for most within the UFC right now. I only brought him up as one of the possible huys not associated with the UFC who could come in. Personally I'd love to see Hunt drop a few pounds & get in the Octagon |
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DWright
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Post by DWright on Sept 3, 2008 18:01:55 GMT -5
Mark Hunt should never step into a UFC octagon...let alone get a title shot. quote] Why? 2001 K1 Grand Prix Champion & wins over Wandy & Crocop are hardly to be sneezed at. I reckon he'd be a threat for most within the UFC right now. I only brought him up as one of the possible huys not associated with the UFC who could come in. Personally I'd love to see Hunt drop a few pounds & get in the Octagon Hunt <3 Donuts more than fighting. I was just never a big fan of Hunt at all and never saw the appeal. Not taking away from wins he does have, I just wouldn't see him as a huge threat in the octagon. Both his wins came way of a split decision, and I just don't see him being someone who could finish fights on a regular basis. Nor a guy that could go a long distance. He's someone I see gassing before he even gets in the cage. |
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Post by jomoishollywood on Sept 3, 2008 19:18:56 GMT -5
No.
Simple as that.
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Fury
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Post by Fury on Sept 4, 2008 1:42:59 GMT -5
This fight isn't about Brock deserving the shot or not, does he deserve for what he's done inside the octagon, probably not. Does he deserve it for what he does for the UFC outside the octagon (media coverage, buyrates) definantely so, and it's not like there are other Heavyweights in the division who aren't booked who deserve it more anyway.
This fight isn't about who deserves the fight or not, this is about Big Time Money fights & there aren't a bigger time fight that the UFC could do besides this one, the UFC are smart for doing this fight now & I and everyone else is pumped for and drawn huge interest already.
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Post by Codesters on Sept 4, 2008 16:17:06 GMT -5
Well like Moogie said in another post, Dana should've delayed the anouncement because it's definately over shadowing Liddell/Evans Staurday night.
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PdW2kX
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Post by PdW2kX on Sept 4, 2008 18:21:58 GMT -5
I haven't voiced my opinion on this for two main reasons: my computer continues to be on the fritz so I don't have time to go into any debates, and this is one of the most-debated topics going right now.
So, I'll make it short and sweet. Brock does not deserve a title shot this soon. Dana is rushing this fight because he wants to capitalize on the massive money this will bring in.
The right thing to do would be to book Kongo/Brock, Gonzaga/Velasquez, and Couture vs. Winner of Nog/Mir. That way, the winner of Brock/Kongo faces the winner of Gonzaga/Velasquez, who then faces the winner of Randy Couture/Nog or Mir. Then have Randy/Fedor.
But Dana loves dollar signs. While it may not be right, the smart thing to do is to capitalize on Couture's return as much as possible. Since they can't have Fedor, they're doing the next best thing to guarantee big buy rates: setting him up with Brock, who's riding a wave of popularity and controversy that is currently making him one of UFC's bigger, if not one of the biggest, draws.
So, that's my stance: it's not right, but it's smart.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it, nyah.
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Post by Controversial Maverick PUNK on Sept 4, 2008 19:48:55 GMT -5
It's all about the monaaayyy.. Also, I say why not?.. Lets see what Lesnar can do against a BIG name, and a bona fide icon in the world of MMA - then we'll see if he is indeed the real deal, and has a definite future in the sport..
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Post by Kliquid on Sept 4, 2008 21:56:02 GMT -5
Absolutely not.
That said, I think he'll win.
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