voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Jun 11, 2020 10:21:06 GMT -5
Why are people choosing ANOTHER 1-2-3 Kid when we do not have the other two?
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voicesinmyhead
Main Eventer
Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Jun 7, 2020 19:56:01 GMT -5
Kross looks like CM Punk if only CM Punk had athleticism.
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voicesinmyhead
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Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Jun 7, 2020 19:14:01 GMT -5
Cole vs Dream is next!? I guess Kross and Ciampa are the main event tonight. I think it’s the Women’s title.
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voicesinmyhead
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Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Jun 7, 2020 19:09:52 GMT -5
Kind of disappointed in that match. I expected way more from the two of them...
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voicesinmyhead
Main Eventer
Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Jun 2, 2020 17:32:10 GMT -5
So on this week's Dynamite, Omega and Page are defending their titles against Kip Sabian and Jimmy Havock. Where was I when they became #1 contenders. If I remember correctly, the Best Friends won a #1 contender's match at the PPV and Sabian/Havock has lost a ton of matches as a tag team. I guess wins and loses really matter...
Also, didn't Cody say that his title will be "open" to all. Usually in "open" challenges, you should not necessarily need to qualify. So for one, that gets rid of wins and loses mattering, but two, why did Jungle Boy need to qualify? Couldn;t he just step up to the plate since it is an open challenge. What is happening?!
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voicesinmyhead
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Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 26, 2020 20:56:21 GMT -5
Nia hasn't ended a career like Seth Rollins has, so she has that going for her still. Sting has said on record that the injury was his fault. He did not protect himself correctly. Rollins gets way too much crap from this community.
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voicesinmyhead
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Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 26, 2020 11:16:31 GMT -5
Real excited about these, hopefully they are semi- of fully on track to be released when expected. Shoot I wouldn’t mind this coming out earlier.... They should be on time. They are not on track. They were supposed to be released in July, and now RIngside has them set for mid-August.
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voicesinmyhead
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Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 26, 2020 10:59:25 GMT -5
They beat a WWE national TV show on ratings every single week. That's a game changer. At least for the last 20 years. I think beating NXT every week is impressive. I think(and I'm not necessarily saying from this board) some people think AEW sucks is because they aren't getting numbers on par with Raw. That's unrealistic at this point! It is not impressive to beat WWE's third tier brand. THey also do not beat them EVERY week. THey beat them most weeks sure, but certainly not every week. Also, it is hard to count those as super-successful wins when there is another way to watch NXT. I watch NXT every week, but I do not watch it live on TV. I wait to watch it on the Network the following day. I am sure that I am not the only person that does that. AEW doesn;t have this second option so it is not impressive that they slightly beat them each week when many fans could be watching NXT on the Network instead.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 25, 2020 21:13:50 GMT -5
I see nothing wrong with it.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 25, 2020 20:57:16 GMT -5
It’s not just semantics. If AEW wants to be different then WWE then there needs to be consistency and reliability. If they start saying this and that doesn’t matter than soon enough the wins and losses themselves won’t matter. I mean does WWE do any record keeping? I’m pretty sure they don’t. Yeah they do record keeping in terms of title reigns, and other thing as well. They don't have a win/loss record on screen, but that wasn't what I was talking about. I said they need to be different in terms of consistency and reliability.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 25, 2020 11:54:41 GMT -5
If someone gets an L in a fatal four way match when not getting pinned, technically they should get an L for losing the battle royal. It depends on how they want to score it. These are semantics at this point. It’s not just semantics. If AEW wants to be different then WWE then there needs to be consistency and reliability. If they start saying this and that doesn’t matter than soon enough the wins and losses themselves won’t matter.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 25, 2020 10:06:36 GMT -5
1. Decade of Domination Elite 2. Survivor Series Heritage Basic 3. Put the head from the basic onto the Elite for the Ultimate Big Show. Decade of Domination? Which one is that?
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 25, 2020 10:03:57 GMT -5
I think another thing to help the W/L records seem more legit is to be consistent with tracking single, tag/multi-partner, and specialty/gimmick-match records. Someone like Scorpio Sky has a 16-7 record currently which looks hella impressive and one would argue that he should be ranked on their singles chart, 'cept most of that is from his tag run. This week AEW plans to have a battle royale right? Are they going to notch an L on everyone who doesn't end up winning the match? If they choose to isolate gimmick matches then commentators can reflect on that record for that wrestler for that kind of match and sell it better e.g. Havok's deathmatch record, or Cody's steel cage record. Yes it a lot more numbers to track, but that's the appeal of real professional sports - everyone has stats and fans love to track stats. If someone gets an L in a fatal four way match when not getting pinned, technically they should get an L for losing the battle royal.
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voicesinmyhead
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Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 25, 2020 8:10:56 GMT -5
When did AEW claim that they wanted to be fantasy and comic book like? AEW claimed to be sports oriented so they should be more reality based pro wrestling. WWE is the non-reality based pro-wrestling and AEW is supposed to be the alternative. So, I don't think I am looking in the wrong place. I think they are not supplying what they promised their company would be. Also, I understand everyone will have different opinions, but why do people defend Marko Stunt? What does he provide to this company? He is only hurting their brand. well now that you know what the company is, maybe it isn't for you. and marko stunt is heavily marketable, especially in jurassic express. the average tv watcher does not take wrestling seriously whatsoever, he is damaging nothing. he's different, talented, and connecting to the audience. My point is the company isn't what is set out to be. The company turned into something it said it wouldn't be. That is not my fault that I wanted to watch what Cody promised AEW would be.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 25, 2020 8:08:58 GMT -5
So I decided to go back and re-read some of the original articles about AEW, etc. Just out of curiosity to see what I could further add to the discussion. The discussion seems to have stalled, but as a huge AEW fan, I do think it's an interesting topic as long as no one is overly worked up about it. I'm certain there were more, but the comments I could find easily about being sports oriented/their mission statement were: ". I want to be the sports-centric alternative in the pro wrestling world and I think we’re on a good path to get there.” "“One thing we really strongly want to present is wins and losses mattering again in pro wrestling. That takes more than the W and the L column,” he said. “We’re talking about percentage of times someone loses to this particular maneuver, percentages against somebody of this height, a whole by-the-numbers approach that really intrigues me. It’s not a cornerstone of AEW necessarily but it’s a great peripheral element we’re working on and that’s going to be exclusive to us." -- Cody "Focused on producing fast-paced, high-impact competitions, AEW offers fans less scripted, soapy drama, and more athleticism and real sports analytics, bringing a legitimacy to wrestling that it has not previously had. Wrestlers will also be given more freedom to explore their characters and highlight their athletic abilities. Introducing statistics to wrestling for the first time ever, AEW will raise the stakes for its matches and deepen fan engagement by tracking each competitor’s wins and losses as the wrestlers pursue championships, analyzing their moves, assessing damage to their opponents, and providing insights into their winning streaks." -- Press Release. Obviously, the analytics have not come through yet beyond wins and losses. Whatever the reason for it, I'm not sure. Maybe they just got too bloody busy and realized that was overly ambitious, perhaps they will show up a little further down the road, perhaps not. The company has existed for a year, and been on TV for about 8 months. Realistically that's about enough time to start compiling some actual statistics on the day 1 talent. Is someone working on it? I have no idea of course. Honestly, do I really care? Not really. If they go back on the idea of having those background statistics I don't think it's the worst thing they could go back on. I know Tony Khan is a numbers guy, so I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing this show up in the future as the numbers become more statistically significant, rather than reading like a batting average after 5 MLB games for a lot of the newer guys. Beyond W-L, they were supposed to be an extra thing anyways, not the entire basis for the product, so whatever. Sounds like a cool idea as a background thing, but I'm not gonna be crying myself to sleep if it doesn't happen. The Wins and Losses do matter. I think they've shown they matter. Look at almost every title opportunity, and it was a person at or near the top of the rankings. The 4 way matches or #1 contender matches have been with people high in the rankings, not people at the bottom. Why have number 1 contender matches when you have a #1 ranked person? Put another way, why do sports have playoffs? Why do we have wild-card slots? You don't get the stanley cup for winning the presidents trophy. You get the stanley cup for winning the playoffs. #1 seeds get knocked off all the time. Combat sports? How many #1 ranked UFC fighters get title shots? It's not all the time. Tennis grand slam? Gotta play through a 256 person bracket. #1 rank =/= #1 contender in this company. If that's a huge issue for contention, I mean go hard, but I think there are essentially infinite sports examples where that non-equivalency is also evident. Could you argue that perhaps the #1 contender should have an advantage? Sure, and that would actually be kinda cool. How it would work I have no idea, but I'd be down to see some creativity there. The last part from those comments I found is just having it being sports-centric and not soap-opera based. Is everything sports centered? Certainly not. I'm not going to try to argue for a second that OC is sports oriented, that the Stampede match was (at least beyond being the Airplane equivalent of a wrestling match), or that literally anything about Matt hardy is. I think a fair amount is though. Beyond wins and losses above. Look at how many wrestlers have managers/coaches. Tazz manages and likely coaches Cage. (I don't think it was an accident Cage's offense in that match was very suplex centric haha). Arn coaches Cody, and has his playcard all the time, which I freaking love. That part is pretty sports centric I'd say. Title matches have a real big fight feel to them. Title matches also have a longer leash for violence, i.e. it's harder to get a DQ. It's much harder to get a penalty in the NHL playoffs. MUCH harder. It's like a totally different game. (Yeah, I'm Canadian, hockey references are just how we roll). They mention the rankings pretty consistently, they talk about everyone having the goal of the title. They've tried weigh-ins. Most everyone is chasing after the titles. (I'm not sure if Orange Cassidy knows there is a title yet or not). There are plenty of other small things I've noticed that feel very sports like, but I can't think of every single example on the spot. I couldn't find the quote, but I remember Cody talking a lot about it having "something for everyone" and kind of stepping back on the sports thing a bit too. Not in a "we don't want to be sports based" kinda way, but more in a "Hey, yes we're sports based, but that doesn't mean there isn't going to be storylines, or comedy, or anything like that. It's our big driver, but you'll still get those other elements of pro wrestling". The idea was that they would have something for everyone. You didn't have to like everything they did, but hopefully you could find some things you really liked. I wish I could find the actual quote or interview because I think it cleared a lot of that up. People got really hung up on the statistics part of the release and he addressed it. I think they've definitely met that criteria. Whatever your style of wrestling, you'll probably find something on the cards that suit your fancy. Maybe not all of it, and some shows may be better than others, but overall. Long post, so TL;DR -- W/L do matter, see the evidence provided, It has been relatively sports oriented overall, again see comments. Wasn't supposed to be only sports oriented, and I don't know where the rest of the statistics are or if they are coming. How has it been relatively sports centered when you have Marko Stunt, Orange Cassidy, Matt Hardy, and Michael Nakazawa? Those all take away from the sports feel? Also, my point about W/L wasn't about them mattering. My point about W/L was that it is ultimately going to hurt a lot of people because they won;t be bale to recover from their terrible record. I said that rankings didn't matter which is a different point entirely.
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voicesinmyhead
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Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 25, 2020 8:05:00 GMT -5
He actually completely 100% in very clear and precise terms explained exactly this... I was kind of skimming his post and totally missed that part My bad.
So you agreed with my post without knowing, then claimed it doesn't matter, then admitted to not even reading my post?
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voicesinmyhead
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Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 24, 2020 20:37:54 GMT -5
To me, it doesn't matter if Marko Stunt loses every match for the rest of time. For him to even be in the ring is a joke in and of itself. He shouldn't have even been able to touch Archer. Archer is supposed to look like a monster, yet Marko can get some offense in? I don't know about that. i think you're looking in the wrong places then. aew will continue to feature classic wrestling tropes (good vs bad, david vs goliath, etc) but also, much like lucha underground, are presenting their product in a way that mixes elements more of fantasy and comic book style action than actually reality based pro wrestling. that's why marco stunt can land offense. that's why riho could be women's champion. that's why orange cassidy can fight with his hands in his pockets. as for aew 'changing the game', i was never worried about that. i knew their product wasn't going to be the exact product i want to see, but i was hopeful that they would tell developed stories that keep a good pace and play out. not a never ending miz vs ziggler feud. stories that make sense. and we have gotten that tenfold in my opinion. so i'm more than happy with what aew has done so far. When did AEW claim that they wanted to be fantasy and comic book like? AEW claimed to be sports oriented so they should be more reality based pro wrestling. WWE is the non-reality based pro-wrestling and AEW is supposed to be the alternative. So, I don't think I am looking in the wrong place. I think they are not supplying what they promised their company would be. Also, I understand everyone will have different opinions, but why do people defend Marko Stunt? What does he provide to this company? He is only hurting their brand.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 24, 2020 20:12:21 GMT -5
Well I like AEW and I’m glad I’m getting some alternative to wwe. TNA and ROH failed at that. I know NXT is different from raw and smackdown, but at the end of the day it’s a wwe show and a lot of the wrestlers that are used well in NXT become nothing on the main roster because Hunter creates and then Vince kills! I don’t even go back and forth like I used to in the Monday Night War era. I just watch AEW. I am not understanding why you don't watch NXT. Are you not watching because they eventually make it to the main roster? That doesn't even make sense. And also, people like Velveteen Dream, Johnny Gargano, and the Undisputed Era have been on NXT for YEARS and have not moved up or on so you could still watch them on NXT.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 24, 2020 14:28:36 GMT -5
I posted about Marko Stunt earlier this week, but again, he loses almost all the matches he's in. He might get a couple of dropkicks or hurricanranas in but generally he's just getting thrown around. If he's won it's only been on Dark or in a tag match. Not even coming at you specifically but I'm reminded of Jim Cornette going off on his match vs. Lance Archer and acting like it was competitive, when it was only as long as it was because Archer wanted to keep killing him (I'd have to watch it again but I don't think he even took Archer off his feet). The hatred he gets confuses me. He's in the same role QT Marshall is in, which is essentially a glorified jobber. I do actually agree with you on Omega. If I wasn't familiar with him and AEW was my first exposure he'd just blend in with everyone else. I get he probably doesn't want to book himself over everyone, but meh, sometimes it pays to be selfish. They deserve credit for abruptly ending the Brandi storyline IMO. Pretty sure everyone hated it so they just said screw it. I appreciate that more than them doubling down on it. The women's division is blah but it gives us Hikaru Shida, so that's something. As for the tag division, if not for the Coronavirus and Page being off TV for two months I just assumed they'd have lost the belts by now. To me, it doesn't matter if Marko Stunt loses every match for the rest of time. For him to even be in the ring is a joke in and of itself. He shouldn't have even been able to touch Archer. Archer is supposed to look like a monster, yet Marko can get some offense in? I don't know about that.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on May 24, 2020 14:25:33 GMT -5
I want AEW to succeed and I also think voicesinmyhead is making some legitimate points. I do want to acknowledge that this pandemic has thrown everything off. Tony Khan has had to book on the fly with a skeleton crew; obviously where we are at currently isn't exactly the plan they had in place in January. I have to give the company credit for making the most with no fans; they are doing a better job than WWE, Impact, ROH and MLW to name a few. To their credit they've nixed stuff like the Nightmare Collective immediately, they are using Legends the right way by bringing back the concept of a "manager" (e.g. Jake, Arn, Taz), and offering a variety of entertainment from death matches to the bubbly bunch. But with the state of the world right now, it's highlighting a lot more bad with this company: - waiting around for spots - everyone does a suicide dive - lack of female star power - nonsensical rankings - detrimental win-loss records - the jobbers' over-offense - Not elevating the world title as it should be I honestly feel they should have kept the belt on Jericho for a good year; build up young babyface stars like Darby, Jungle Boy, Luchasauraus to feud and lose to Jericho THEN give Mox the win while building up heel stars like Lance and MJF to be his feuds. It would give more prestige/credibility to the title. I don't know if the plan was for Mox to lose it quickly back to Jericho before the pandemic struck, but him being stuck with the belt at home and then in a rushed feud with Brodie Lee who just got kicked out of WWE? It feels like booking on the fly. So I do think they've made some rash choices with their storylines, but again, I think the lack of crowds (for reaction to help booking) and lack of talent available is hurting their overall product. We do agree on a lot of topics here. The only thing is everyone keep using the pandemic as an excuse and every point I made is something that happened before the pandemic or would have happened regardless. The women's wrestling was bad before and continues to do so. The rankings and win-loss records were around from the start, and the jobber stuff happens all the time.
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