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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2012 17:36:57 GMT -5
yeah we chew this over often in the Classic forum.
The nWo should never have been part of The Invasion-they didnt need them.they needed Steiner,Goldberg,Rick Steiner & Flair(who were all available and willing to talk) and the WCW talent to be treated well.......Booker,DDP,Storm,Awesome and several others all had the tools to be presented well-but we seen what happened there.
in an ideal world The nWo should have turned up on Raw the night after the Invasion angle ended(post WM18) to spoil Vinces party.they should have beat on him and spraypainted nWo on his back.
all of the above hinged on the Invasion angle being a sucess...but of course the Invasion angle was doomed from the beginning by ego and the nWo angle by injuries,halls problems and ego again
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Post by Nivro™ on Sept 28, 2012 17:37:47 GMT -5
If they nWo came in earlier the invansion angle would have been a lot wilder. You would have had the Alliance feuding with both the nWo & WWF. Plus guys like Sting, Flair, Goldberg would have been available for the invasion angle as WWE would have bought out their contracts. The reason it was only minor WCW guys in the Invasion angle is because they were the ones who couldn't afford to sit out for a signifigant amount of time. Hogan v Rock would have still happened at Mania, but it would have probably been a title match Just because they would buy out the nWo contracts doesnt mean Sting, Flair and Goldberg would come. The reason they got the WCW guys that they did is because they all had contracts with WCW whereas big name guys like Hogan, Sting, Flair, Nash etc had guaranteed contracts with Turner/Time Warner. WWF would have had to buy out those contracts and financially that wouldnt make any sense for WWF as well as the wrestlers who could and mostly did sit at home and just collect a pay check. |
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Post by Glorydaysofwrestling on Sept 28, 2012 20:20:17 GMT -5
yeah we chew this over often in the Classic forum. The nWo should never have been part of The Invasion-they didnt need them.they needed Steiner,Goldberg,Rick Steiner & Flair(who were all available and willing to talk) and the WCW talent to be treated well.......Booker,DDP,Storm,Awesome and several others all had the tools to be presented well-but we seen what happened there. in an ideal world The nWo should have turned up on Raw the night after the Invasion angle ended(post WM18) to spoil Vinces party.they should have beat on him and spraypainted nWo on his back. all of the above hinged on the Invasion angle being a sucess...but of course the Invasion angle was doomed from the beginning by ego and the nWo angle by injuries,halls problems and ego again That would have been awesome |
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Lithium
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Post by Lithium on Sept 28, 2012 20:53:34 GMT -5
The only reason The Rock faced Hulk is because Steve Austin didn't want to do the job. Which is what I don't get. If Rock was going to win anyway, why didn't Austin want the match if he was going to be put over by Hogan?
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Post by The-Rock on Sept 29, 2012 1:15:48 GMT -5
If they nWo came in earlier the invansion angle would have been a lot wilder. You would have had the Alliance feuding with both the nWo & WWF. Plus guys like Sting, Flair, Goldberg would have been available for the invasion angle as WWE would have bought out their contracts. The reason it was only minor WCW guys in the Invasion angle is because they were the ones who couldn't afford to sit out for a signifigant amount of time. Hogan v Rock would have still happened at Mania, but it would have probably been a title match Just because they would buy out the nWo contracts doesnt mean Sting, Flair and Goldberg would come. The reason they got the WCW guys that they did is because they all had contracts with WCW whereas big name guys like Hogan, Sting, Flair, Nash etc had guaranteed contracts with Turner/Time Warner. WWF would have had to buy out those contracts and financially that wouldnt make any sense for WWF as well as the wrestlers who could and mostly did sit at home and just collect a pay check. I think this is somewhat correct. I originally thought (and was partially correct myself) that a lot of superstars contracts were with AOL Time Warner, and not just WCW, since guys like Goldberg/Hogan/Sting had their likenesses marketed out beyond wrestling (I specifically remember credit cards). My understanding of the situation, at least when I was 11 years old in 2001, was that WCW had done this to protect their greatest assets so that if the company went bankrupt, they could still make money off of their big guys and so that Vince wouldn't scoop them up for pennies on the dollar. I also remember it being like Ted Turner's silver lining of the deal, that Vince was merely buying like bare bones of WCW. I also figured that most of the big name WCW guys had non-compete clauses that prevented them from working in WWF. Upon doing some research just now I discovered that Vince had the option to buyout/take on whoever's contract he wanted...OR the wrestlers could reach a settlement with AOL/Time Warner and then sign with WWF. However, for most that made no sense since they'd be getting paid to do nothing or would have to work and take a pay cut. Several of the wrestler (like for instance Hogan, Mysterio, Flair) had ridiculously expensive bad deals, and it made more sense for Vince to just let those be paid by AOL/Time Warner and then sign the wrestlers once they were free agents. Additionally, Steiner was hurt; Macho Man/Luger were old guys who Vince had personal issues with; Sting has still yet to appear in WWE; and the nWo/Goldberg eventually came when their guaranteed deals ran up/they were satisfied with WWE's offer. Interesting enough, Booker T was the only major guy to agree to a buyout of his contract (I assume that's because he was offered as good/a better deal with WWF since he was the reigning WCW & US champion, and he wasn't exactly a huge star in WCW). Now onto the subject of why didn't WWF just delay the InVasion until these guys showed up... that has to do with Vince's ego. He wanted to crush WCW and make them look weak. He couldn't very well have done that with Hogan, Flair, Goldberg, etc.... because he needed those guys to make him money (and burying them wouldn't accomplish that). I also think that if WCW had ll those guys it would have made the WWF look weak. Jericho was considered one of WWF's top 5 at the time...and he essentially was an upper-mid card talent at best until he beat Austin/Rock at Vengeance in 2001. Not to mention, he was a nothing compared to those guys when he was in WCW. |
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Post by The-Rock on Sept 29, 2012 1:32:17 GMT -5
So I was doing some research on the whole situation with contract situation relating to WCW talent and the InVasion angle, and this thought crossed my mind. Something that never really made sense to me was how WcW lacked star power so the likes of Austin, Angle, Dudleys, Rhyno, Test, Christian etc. were put in The Alliance. Yet, Chris Jericho awas considered one of WWE's top 5 guys throughout the entire storyline, despite never being more than an upper-middle card guy at best, until mid 2001. Additionally, Big Show was barely even used in the storyline until fall 2001, despite being a main eventer in WCW. Also, Jericho turned heel, won his first ever world championship in September/October by feuding with The Rock...and the went on to become the company's #1 heel from the end of 2001 through 2002. Even in 2001, I was perplexed as to why Jericho and Benoit didn't join the Alliance since that made a lot of sense (Benoit got within a few weeks of Booker T arriving...so that made sense). But, wouldn't have made perfect sense for Jericho to deflect to lead The Alliance and instantly make him into the heel he eventually become. Not to mention, HE WAS ALREADY FEUDING WITH AUSTIN AT THE TIME FOR THE WWE CHAMPIONSHIP! Additionally, WCW's only real "monster/big guy" was Rhyno...while WWE had Undertaker, Kane, the APA, Rikishi, etc....wouldn't it have made perfect sense for WCW to have one of their most famous former talents in Big Show as their monster heel!?!?!
Interesting thought, just figured I'd share
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Post by Johnny Wrestling on Sept 29, 2012 1:50:56 GMT -5
IMO, while it would've been amazing for guys like Sting, Hogan, Flair to be part of the storyline, what I think that ruined it was pretty much WWE's effort to make them seem superior over the WCW talent. Most of them seemed like a joke, and I honestly don't know if Jericho and Show would've been treated differently. I never thought of them being there before though.
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Billy the Kid
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Post by Billy the Kid on Sept 29, 2012 5:08:27 GMT -5
Chris Jericho, while one of my favorites was not a top guy in 2001 in WWF. And to have him lead the WCW invasion would be just as stupid as what really happened. Jericho wasn't a top guy in WCW either.
As for Big Show... I think the entire reason behind him being left off the majority of the invasion angle was because if he was involved heavily like loyalists such as Taker, Kane, etc it wouldn't be much of a surprise if he joined The Alliance like Austin and Angle. Show had WCW roots unlike Christian, Test, or Kurt Angle.
The invasion was done poorly, but as Lone Wolf stated, I think the entire purpose was to prove WWF's superiority over WCW.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2012 7:33:34 GMT -5
there is a myth that Vince couldnt afford to buy out the contracts of the guys who WANTED to work,Steiners,Flair,Goldberg......and that is false. Invasions buyrate was a  in MONSTER with the lineup it had......imagine if the Main event had been Austin & Angle vs Steiner & Goldberg?the number would have been off the chart........and easily offset and cost to bring the others in.Vinces excuse of not wanting to upset the locker room over $$ is BS,he did it in 2003 anyway when he brought in Goldberg but by that time?heat was gone and Goldberg made no difference.....does anyone think he wouldnt have made a difference in 2001?nope. by Summerslam viewing numbers were slipping because nobody cared.the WCW/ECW coalition were background fodder in yet ANOTHER McMahon feud......wouldnt have been that way if the talent had been treated well and viewed as a threat.Vinnie being in peril by the pairing of Flair & Heyman backed by their respective best guys would have been compelling TV. also the locker room was paid on the sliding scale....the WCW wrestlers being treated well and having more big guys would have led to better buyrates(see above) instead of the consumer apathy they seen.....which meant more money for the locker room. then theres the jobbers that Vince had on TV-half of those contracts he got with WCW should have been canned or used to beef up OVW.a smaller Invasion force of the top guys would have been much better.....dont think anyone can argue that. . |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2012 7:36:45 GMT -5
The only reason The Rock faced Hulk is because Steve Austin didn't want to do the job. Which is what I don't get. If Rock was going to win anyway, why didn't Austin want the match if he was going to be put over by Hogan? nope.Austin bailed because of the layout of the match and the way it was all going down.nobody was scheduled to lose to Hogan IIRC.but the ol Orange skinned one had some pretty far out demands. when I look back HHH was very wise to extricate himself from that angle before his return. |
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Mr Wrestling Jr.
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Post by Mr Wrestling Jr. on Sept 30, 2012 0:07:39 GMT -5
They really should've tried to work out the contracts and bring the nWo in, Goldberg, Sting
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 7:01:04 GMT -5
clearly this should be in the classic forum man.I have a thread dedicated to The Alliance/Invasion storyline in there.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 7:22:29 GMT -5
Why on earth they didn't have DDP lead the invasion is beyond me.
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Post by pxkgotosleep on Sept 30, 2012 8:06:25 GMT -5
Why on earth they didn't have DDP lead the invasion is beyond me. Because he was a stalker serial rapist. And he hugged Vince McMahon. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 10:35:06 GMT -5
Ill maintain this opinion always.......
if Jericho had been the one to turn on team WWF the night of Invasion they would have created another top guy overnight,the heat he would have got would have been epic..of course this would have needed to be followed up with credible wins.
merging this thread with the official Invasion thread now.
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Post by cordless2016 on Oct 10, 2012 23:35:50 GMT -5
Rock-Hogan happened because Vince wanted Hogan to go over Steve and there was no point to it. They both also didn't want to work together. Hogan didn't want to job to Steve and vice versa. Steve had bad blood with Hogan from their WCW days when Hogan was one of the guys telling Steve he would never become anything. Hogan and Steve couldn't come up with an ending so the idea was scrapped. The origional plan was for both Hogan and Hall to go over, but once Steve and Hogan couldn't work something out, the whole nWo storyline was scrapped.
[quoteJust because they would buy out the nWo contracts doesnt mean Sting, Flair and Goldberg would come. The reason they got the WCW guys that they did is because they all had contracts with WCW whereas big name guys like Hogan, Sting, Flair, Nash etc had guaranteed contracts with Turner/Time Warner. WWF would have had to buy out those contracts and financially that wouldnt make any sense for WWF as well as the wrestlers who could and mostly did sit at home and just collect a pay check. ][/quote]
Yes Vince would still have had to have gotten them to sign new contracts with him, but Goldberg, Sting, Steiner, and Flair were all willing to talk and sign for the right price. And signing them would have been a smart move for Vince. The Invasion ppv brought in a huge bye rate and it was a pretty lackluster card. Imagine if team WCW had consisted of Goldberg, Sting, DDP, Booker T, and Steiner w/ Flair leading WCW...would have been worth it for Vince.
Anyway I've been saying for years that Jericho and Big Show should have turned on the WWF. Before the Invasion both Jericho and Benoit were teased as joining WCW, but that was dropped when Benoit got hurt. But it would have made way more sense for Jericho to turn because it would have made him the #1 heel in the company. Big Show also would have made sense since he was a top WC star and former WWF champ.
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Post by LeighD on Oct 16, 2012 7:05:57 GMT -5
Rock-Hogan happened because Vince wanted Hogan to go over Steve and there was no point to it. They both also didn't want to work together. Hogan didn't want to job to Steve and vice versa. Steve had bad blood with Hogan from their WCW days when Hogan was one of the guys telling Steve he would never become anything. Hogan and Steve couldn't come up with an ending so the idea was scrapped. The origional plan was for both Hogan and Hall to go over, but once Steve and Hogan couldn't work something out, the whole nWo storyline was scrapped. [quoteJust because they would buy out the nWo contracts doesnt mean Sting, Flair and Goldberg would come. The reason they got the WCW guys that they did is because they all had contracts with WCW whereas big name guys like Hogan, Sting, Flair, Nash etc had guaranteed contracts with Turner/Time Warner. WWF would have had to buy out those contracts and financially that wouldnt make any sense for WWF as well as the wrestlers who could and mostly did sit at home and just collect a pay check. ] Yes Vince would still have had to have gotten them to sign new contracts with him, but Goldberg, Sting, Steiner, and Flair were all willing to talk and sign for the right price. And signing them would have been a smart move for Vince. The Invasion ppv brought in a huge bye rate and it was a pretty lackluster card. Imagine if team WCW had consisted of Goldberg, Sting, DDP, Booker T, and Steiner w/ Flair leading WCW...would have been worth it for Vince. Anyway I've been saying for years that Jericho and Big Show should have turned on the WWF. Before the Invasion both Jericho and Benoit were teased as joining WCW, but that was dropped when Benoit got hurt. But it would have made way more sense for Jericho to turn because it would have made him the #1 heel in the company. Big Show also would have made sense since he was a top WC star and former WWF champ. [/quote] I whole-heartedly agree wtih Jericho being the frontrunner for WCW at least at the start of the Invasion angle. If they had kept the story goign for another year bigger players could come in and work with Jericho further giving Jericho that main-event rub he needed. As far as Austin vs. Hogan goes, I just don't see why AUstin wouldn't have gone over. He was the biggest star at that point and a win over Hogan at the grandest stage of them all would have been historic! Hogan going over just simply wasn't needed. At least in their first match-up. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 15:00:48 GMT -5
what was Show even doing Summer 2001?being overweight in OVW?why he wasnt used mystifies me.
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Post by LeighD on Oct 18, 2012 6:03:37 GMT -5
what was Show even doing Summer 2001?being overweight in OVW?why he wasnt used mystifies me. I'm actually trying to think what he WAS doing. I remember him being in the Hardcore Title Triple Threat at WrestleMania X-Seven and nothing else until being a part of Team WWF at Survivor Series. I am remembering him maybe doing some tag team stuff with Billy Gunn as the Sho-Gunns. But I don't think he did much during that time. |
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Post by cordless2016 on Oct 23, 2012 9:56:37 GMT -5
I believe they had show in a tag team w/ Billy Gunn that went no where in the summer of 2001. He then had a quick appearance on Raw or SD where Booker T kicked his ass, and then squashed DDP before joining Team WWF for the Survivor Series.
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