Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2017 7:12:57 GMT -5
Do you really... In any universe think that if American Made Hogan had been sold in that same series, that he would have sold as much as that Undertaker? The point I am trying to make is just because that specific look was popular 31 years ago at that time doesn't mean it will sell well in the 2010s. There are other factors to consider. In this case, it's clear that over the years the Hogan that resonates with the mainstream is his classic red and yellow look and his NWO look. This guy also keeps bashing purple Taker, but yet the first one flew off the shelves and it was rereleased. That's a direct contradiction to his logic that a wrestler's popularity at a specific point in time means it well sell that way in modern times. Clearly there are tons of examples where that is just not the case. If you want another example that involves another RSC exclusive, take Wolfpac Sting. Sting was never as big at any point in his career as Hogan was in the 80s. And the Wolfpac gimmick didn't even last a year. Yet, I would bet that Wolfpac Sting sold better than American Made Hogan did. You can STILL buy American Made Hogan from RSC almost two years after the fact. Do you think that Wolfpac Sting, or pretty much any other RSC exclusive will still be available at the same price in two years from now? Very doubtful. I see the point you're trying to make and at no point should popularity persist through the years and remain the same as it was in its prime. Its also hard to say how the popularity of a figure will do in sales because in the main line we had Rikishi and he was one of the hardest figures to find in recent years and goes for a lot. Rikishi!? Really!? Then you have Ringside Exclusives like Shawn Michaels still around, but the Scott Hall & Edge figures sold out almost instantly. Its a weird game because I was certain that the Shawn figure was going to sell out first. I know quantities manufactured also play a huge part in that, but figures I expected to hang around are gone and ones I thought would fly remain. Well, I imagine the RSC exclusives are all manufactured in similar number. And I'm not surprised that Shawn is still around. It's a fantastic figure in of itself, but his most popular attire is the heartbreaker design. I bet it's going to be one of those figures that is plentiful for the time being, but will be scalped for high prices later on (like WM Shawn and Bret and DM Bret, all of which hit bargain price towards the end of their shelf life). And I don't know what your point is about Rikishi. Tully Blanchard fetched high prices too. But his figure wouldn't be worth a crap if it was released as a single again. And it failed in the 4 pack. Yes, it is a weird game at times. But in some aspects, it plays out just as one would expect. I think way too many people here take things so personally that they rewrite (or flat out make up) history and facts to fit their world. This guy literally went back and forth with me on multiple pages to say that the Horsemen were a great choice for the inaugural HOF 4 pack (line failed prematurely), NOD Rock was a "no brainer" (line failed prematurely), that Legends series was super successful (line failed prematurely), that American Made Hogan is one of the biggest and best sellers ever (mother of all facepalms), and that stating off a line strongly is dumb because there will be nothing to release after (that makes no ing sense as there's always more big names to release than what fits in one wave). Every hobby/interest has its apologists but goddamn. The shyt I read on here I swear.
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Post by SteveHulk on Jan 9, 2017 7:28:56 GMT -5
Aside from Stone Cold, NONE of those figures belong there for a first series. 2 duds would have been acceptable. But 5? No dice. 5 "duds"... really? Stone Cold, Dusty in his iconic/WWF polka-dots gear, Steamboat's first figure since the Hasbro days, LOD (arguably the most popular tag team EVER) in an attire Jakks and Hasbro never did... all great choices, IMO. Swap Slaughter for someone like Jake The Snake and it's an excellent line-up/first wave. I think the main failure of the Legends line was due to a lot of people being burned-out after the massive Jakks CS collection - plus, aside from Stone Cold, The Rock, Savage and Warrior, Mattel didn't have enough "big-guns" to keep it going... guys like Bret, Diesel, Mankind, Hogan, Razor, Flair etc. all came afterwards. (Not to mention, WWE didn't want the Legends line to include current wrestlers - which, at the time, ruled out guys like Undertaker, Edge, Triple H, HBK, Kane etc.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2017 8:10:47 GMT -5
Aside from Stone Cold, NONE of those figures belong there for a first series. 2 duds would have been acceptable. But 5? No dice. 5 "duds"... really? Stone Cold, Dusty in his iconic/WWF polka-dots gear, Steamboat's first figure since the Hasbro days, LOD (arguably the most popular tag team EVER) in an attire Jakks and Hasbro never did... all great choices, IMO. Swap Slaughter for someone like Jake The Snake and it's an excellent line-up/first wave. I think the main failure of the Legends line was due to a lot of people being burned-out after the massive Jakks CS collection - plus, aside from Stone Cold, The Rock, Savage and Warrior, Mattel didn't have enough "big-guns" to keep it going... guys like Bret, Diesel, Mankind, Hogan, Razor, Flair etc. all came afterwards. (Not to mention, WWE didn't want the Legends line to include current wrestlers - which, at the time, ruled out guys like Undertaker, Edge, Triple H, HBK, Kane etc.) For an inaugural lineup for a new company, yeah they are duds. LOD in red would not have been. But that would have been better a choice for replacing one of the dud 2 packs. As far as your theory, sure there were some people who took their time to jump on the Mattel ship. But the stores didn't move product because the lineups were just absolutely garbage. People who were on the fence about starting up again weren't going to do it to get "obscure" versions of figures that no one cares about. It absolutely amazes me how you and so many others are missing the whole point of this thread and just keep yapping about the Legends line, which FAILED might I remind you. Jesus. You're like one of those guys who harps on a girl for years after she rejected you. You keep twisting the memory and trying to make sense of what happened. You find every reason to justify it besides the actual truth. There's nothing to figure out here. It was nothing more than bad decisions and a failed fantasy (Yes, thinking the Bushwhackers and Ricky Steamboat are good choices to kick off a new line is fantasy). Now, if anyone wants to discuss this terrible trend of bad lineups for new multipack Elite lines and how Mattel keeps repeating the mistake and ways to rectify that, I'm all for it. But I'm done talking about the Legends line. It FAILED. And for very good, yet preventable reasons.
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maske2g
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 31, 2011 7:00:54 GMT -5
Posts: 2,972
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Post by maske2g on Jan 9, 2017 8:14:47 GMT -5
@alias . You started losing me at point 1. Just looking at that set, I still think....amazing set. I can't discuss with someone who doesn't care about important parts of wrestling history, just because they are too young to care about it. Ridiculous. And again you make complete contradictions. You want to talk about things like ratings, and then you propel the purple Undertaker to some sort of iconic status!!!! Hulk Hogan in 1985. A global star. Intertwining with one of the biggest music stars in the world. vs Undertaker in his attire at a time the WWE was sharply going towards extinction because it was SHYTE!!! Again, Ridiculous!!! You are like Skysports with the Premier league. Lets just pretend football didn't exist before 1993.... That's the thing... You're not discussing. You're putting words in my mouth and trying to take shots at me. For one, I didn't say I didn't care about that moment or any other moment in the history of wrestling. This thread is, and has been, strictly about Mattel starting multipack Elite series off strongly. And by strongly I don't mean what I like, but would sell very well. Dusty Rhodes, The Bushwhackers, NOD, and the Samoans are not the guys to do that. Several of these lines have died prematurely. And they all started off underwhelming in terms of selection. That is all I am focused on. And I don't know why you keep saying I'm "too young". You have no clue how old I am. Nor do you have any clue what my personal preferences are as far as wrestling is concerned. I'm not basing what I think are strong or weak inaugural lineups on what I want. I'm basing it off of what makes the most sense. For instance, one of my favorite wrestlers is Earthquake. And my personal favorite attire of his is the all blue singlet. However, I would have never started off a series with Earthquake. Not unless the other 5 figures were slam dunks (again, slam dunks as in good potential sellers not what I like). And even then there would probably be more sensible choices for the more obscure spot. Now, I am going to bury you with one final point. I find it hilarious that you keep bashing that purple Undertaker look. Elite 23 Undertaker flew off the shelves and was scalped for years after. And it got rereleased, which doesn't happen unless a figure is highly demanded. And guess what, it's pretty safe to say that purple Undertaker sold better than American Made Hogan. BUT HOW CAN THAT BE????? I mean, according to your logic, because Hogan was bigger in 85 than Undertaker was in 95, American Made Hogan should sell more and be revered more than purple Taker right???? WRONG. Anyways, you have poor debate skills and further showcase your delusions and faulty logic with each subsequent reply. You have developed a selective deafness when I counter every single one of your specious claims and ill-gotten conclusions. And not to mention your reading comprehension is highly suspect. I have nothing more to say to you. HAHAH, you are ridiculous. Why don't you apply for a job at Mattel. Tell them to keep bunging out wrestlers who represented the poorest financial period in WWE's history in the last 30 years. I'm sure you will go far. If there were no NOD, Bushwhackers, Dusty in our collection, I would feel hard done by. There are slots to fill in most lines...You literally haven't named anyone that should have gone in any of them except Hall and Nash, both of whom have been released in lots of other lines, recently. Lets get another hall and nash, or lets gets The Brain and Big John Studd. Its an absolute no brainer. Who would you have had out in the first legends line instead of the multi time NWA champion, 2 of the biggest faces in WWE in the early to mid 80's, 1 a former WWE champion, , the greatest tag team of all time, and the wrestler who made WWE a billion dollar public company? Please give me 5 names that WERE LIKELY SIGNED at the time? I realise that's an unknown but we have a pretty good idea by who else was released shortly after. Eddie, Bam bam, Tornado, All smaller names by a long shot. They held back on the big names for later series. Smartly. It's about having all era's represented thoroughly. That is what keeps the collector engaged. I, like most, am a fan of all eras. Good or bad. I have my pref's for sure, but I like Wrestling, not certain years of it. and I don't have this agenda, of throwing a hissy fit to get the mid 90's more represented. You are talking absolute shyte about that Elite 23 Undertaker. How do I know? I've been trying to sell one on my ebay for £24.99 for about 10 months. He is one of about 20 pre 2014 figures I've not been able to sell from the MOC collection. I've sold about 150 Elites. ABA Undertaker.....different story, I sold it for 60 pounds in a matter of days. DOn't just make stuff up, it was not even the most scalped Undertaker figure!! More confirmation bias... And again, you want to dig me out about not knowing how many of a figure were sold (despite it being confirmed by Bill in a Q&A, and then tell me I'm wrong about another. What are you an oracle? You have not made one good suggestion. Not a single one. Created of problems, avoider of solutions. Logic?!?!?! I get paid a consulting daily rate by an investment bank to be logical. It's just hard to know where to start when there are so many holes to pick at. You accuse me of glossing over your texts, I am now. Because like Mattel, I learn lessons. Adapt or die. Your messages are repetitive drivel, not worthy of more than a few mins.
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maske2g
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 31, 2011 7:00:54 GMT -5
Posts: 2,972
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Post by maske2g on Jan 9, 2017 8:16:42 GMT -5
Now he is bad mouthing Ricky Steamboat!!!!!
It's too much, I'm out!!!!
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maske2g
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 31, 2011 7:00:54 GMT -5
Posts: 2,972
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Post by maske2g on Jan 9, 2017 8:20:01 GMT -5
MattelDesignTeam , can we get a new multipack line. Title it, "Wrestlers that have had 6 figures already, and have minimal alternative attires". Market it with the line "Because we don't want to make other legends of wrestling, so get some more Nash's" Or better still, what about a New Generation line!! "Celebrate when VKM nearly went bust"
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Post by Glorydaysofwrestling on Jan 9, 2017 8:25:15 GMT -5
Now he is bad mouthing Ricky Steamboat!!!!! It's too much, I'm out!!!! Yeah man too much! Legends series 1 was amazing. Top notch talent, awesome packaging ,& great details on the figures. The Ricky Steamboat is the reason I started collecting Mattel. I'd buy that set all over again if they re-released it.
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Post by Old School Collector on Jan 9, 2017 8:32:05 GMT -5
Aside from Stone Cold, NONE of those figures belong there for a first series. 2 duds would have been acceptable. But 5? No dice. 5 "duds"... really? Stone Cold, Dusty in his iconic/WWF polka-dots gear, Steamboat's first figure since the Hasbro days, LOD (arguably the most popular tag team EVER) in an attire Jakks and Hasbro never did... all great choices, IMO. Swap Slaughter for someone like Jake The Snake and it's an excellent line-up/first wave. I think the main failure of the Legends line was due to a lot of people being burned-out after the massive Jakks CS collection - plus, aside from Stone Cold, The Rock, Savage and Warrior, Mattel didn't have enough "big-guns" to keep it going... guys like Bret, Diesel, Mankind, Hogan, Razor, Flair etc. all came afterwards. (Not to mention, WWE didn't want the Legends line to include current wrestlers - which, at the time, ruled out guys like Undertaker, Edge, Triple H, HBK, Kane etc.) This guy gets it 👍
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Post by SteveHulk on Jan 9, 2017 8:36:04 GMT -5
For an inaugural lineup for a new company, yeah they are duds. LOD in red would not have been. But that would have been better a choice for replacing one of the dud 2 packs. As far as your theory, sure there were some people who took their time to jump on the Mattel ship. But the stores didn't move product because the lineups were just absolutely garbage. People who were on the fence about starting up again weren't going to do it to get "obscure" versions of figures that no one cares about. The LOD attire, while not their iconic red, was hardly "obscure". I maintain that Series 1 (Slaughter aside) was a great first series... Series 2 is where it went downhill, due to poor figure choices/attires - and the fact that most stores vastly overstocked the figures. Ricky Steamboat was a FANTASTIC choice to kick off a new Legends line... anyone who collected/wanted a Legends line would have been thrilled by his inclusion (...it's still one of my favourite figures). As far as the Target 4-packs go, I can't think of a better way to kick it off than with The Four Horsemen: - arguably the greatest faction in wrestling history - Ric Flair in different trunks and new head-scan - different versions of the Legends Arn and Tully (which were going for CRAZY money on the secondary market) - brand new figure of Barry Windham (who probably would never have had a singles release) So, was it a great set - and the right set to make? Yes. Was there a big problem with Target's pricing/ordering/overstocking of the set? Yes too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2017 8:44:05 GMT -5
Only thing I don't like about that Steamboat is the molded on headband. Been scratching my head on that one for the past 7 or so years.
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PVA
Main Eventer
Too hot to handle and too cold to hold
Joined on: Apr 12, 2004 15:33:20 GMT -5
Posts: 3,120
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Post by PVA on Jan 9, 2017 10:39:23 GMT -5
Just gonna say the problem with legends first series wasn't the selection so much but that they were overproduced and re released in that HOF plaque line as already said.
however in retrospect Mattel may have been better off with longevity in the Legends line had they waited another year when they had more guys under contract. You start the series with something like Austin, rock, savage, warrior, steamboat, & dusty.
So I agree starting a new line with your best foot forward but oversatirating the market with the same 2 series was a death sentence
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ClassicFan2
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 22, 2010 15:25:00 GMT -5
Posts: 3,283
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Post by ClassicFan2 on Jan 9, 2017 11:02:06 GMT -5
you could have started the series with whoever you wanted, it was too soon after Jakks and during the height of the 2nd depression.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2017 11:10:20 GMT -5
Lol this was a fun read
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Post by SteveHulk on Jan 9, 2017 11:37:07 GMT -5
I think the Legends line would have stood a MUCH better chance of being successful had Mattel waited 2-3 years before launching it: they would have had more big names (Bret, Diesel, Mankind, Yokozuna...) and there would have been much more anticipation/demand for them by then. And maybe have 4 per-series, instead of 6 (like they started to do towards the end of the original line)... always leave them wanting more.
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Post by JNH2248 on Jan 9, 2017 11:37:56 GMT -5
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Post by Nivro™ on Jan 9, 2017 12:35:53 GMT -5
Sorry the late responses. Got really busy the last couple days. Aside from Stone Cold, NONE of those figures belong there for a first series. 2 duds would have been acceptable. But 5? No dice. The lineup wasnt a dud and Legends series 1 sold fairly well. The problem is they stuck nearly the same series in the first attempt of the hall of fame line and greatly clogged the shelves. Why buy HOF Rhodes if you already had L1 Rhodes. The only Legends line that I personally saw rot on the shelves were Legends 3. People were picking up Rock, Bulldog, Pillman & Vader for $5 at Dollar General
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Post by mrhoss on Jan 9, 2017 13:13:56 GMT -5
Ricky Steamboat (and Macho Man) were the main pieces missing from CS. It would almost be stupid not to include Ricky in series 1.
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Post by JNH2248 on Jan 9, 2017 13:14:01 GMT -5
Sorry the late responses. Got really busy the last couple days. Aside from Stone Cold, NONE of those figures belong there for a first series. 2 duds would have been acceptable. But 5? No dice. The lineup wasnt a dud and Legends series 1 sold fairly well. The problem is they stuck nearly the same series in the first attempt of the hall of fame line and greatly clogged the shelves. Why buy HOF Rhodes if you already had L1 Rhodes. The only Legends line that I personally saw rot on the shelves were Legends 3. People were picking up Rock, Bulldog, Pillman & Vader for $5 at Dollar General I would've loved that!
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Post by GreyHaze:Big Bad Booty Daddy on Jan 9, 2017 16:37:56 GMT -5
Probably not related to the subject but why can't they give us the iconic attires first? No nWo hogan, no red and black Scott hall, no fb RVDs, we haven't even gotten a jeans DDP things like that are mindboggling to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2017 19:19:12 GMT -5
MattelDesignTeam , can we get a new multipack line. Title it, "Wrestlers that have had 6 figures already, and have minimal alternative attires". Market it with the line "Because we don't want to make other legends of wrestling, so get some more Nash's" Or better still, what about a New Generation line!! "Celebrate when VKM nearly went bust" Would sell better than the Horsemen!
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