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Post by MKSavage on Apr 27, 2020 7:31:21 GMT -5
Could be, I think Jake also said as much in one of his shoot interviews when he talked about working with Sting in 1992. It sounds as though Sting didn't really care to get into the politics of the business and just went along with what was written, which really didn't do him any favors in the late 90s when it seems everyone was politicking at the time. That is just more of a reason to respect him. I feel like he should have atleast won his first WWE match. Yeah, that was baffling. Seems like a power play by Vince or HHH. If they knew Sting was going to be featured going forward, and especially going to be in a match for the world title, then Sting definitely should have won that match. It just seemed like the WWE was being petty by not letting Sting get the win, almost like they felt that if Sting gets a win then WCW gets a win.
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jking1979
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Post by jking1979 on Apr 27, 2020 17:58:09 GMT -5
That is just more of a reason to respect him. I feel like he should have atleast won his first WWE match. Yeah, that was baffling. Seems like a power play by Vince or HHH. If they knew Sting was going to be featured going forward, and especially going to be in a match for the world title, then Sting definitely should have won that match. It just seemed like the WWE was being petty by not letting Sting get the win, almost like they felt that if Sting gets a win then WCW gets a win. You hit the nail on the head. It would have been WCW getting over on WWE according to Vince McMahon. The WCW guys should have been on the same level as the WWE. They would have made alot more money.
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Post by MKSavage on Apr 28, 2020 6:05:38 GMT -5
Yeah, that was baffling. Seems like a power play by Vince or HHH. If they knew Sting was going to be featured going forward, and especially going to be in a match for the world title, then Sting definitely should have won that match. It just seemed like the WWE was being petty by not letting Sting get the win, almost like they felt that if Sting gets a win then WCW gets a win. You hit the nail on the head. It would have been WCW getting over on WWE according to Vince McMahon. The WCW guys should have been on the same level as the WWE. They would have made alot more money. Yeah, it seems like they have things backwards nowadays. When someone new comes into the company wouldn't it be best for them to not lose right out of the gate, how do you build someone up if they are losing right away.
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wheeljack83
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Post by wheeljack83 on May 25, 2020 1:37:33 GMT -5
Bischoff is full of it if he wants us to believe that the finish wasnt changed to "keep Hogan strong." Regardless of if he had doubts about Sting's ability to carry the title that night, they still put the belt on him, so why not send the fans home happy, put him over strong as was the supposed original plan and then figure the rest out later? They obviously didnt have faith in him long term since his title reign was so sub-par anyway, and Hogan had the title back by April. Bischoff even says that Sting seemed to think he was going to get screwed somehow at the end of all this build up- and turns out he was right! Because Bischoff is a scumbag. Hogan was his buddy. And Hogan had a death grip on the main event and he wasn't letting go as long as he was there. Oh noez! Sting's not tanned! Sting's not buff enough! No one will buy the fact that a dude who isn't tanned and not buff can beat Hollywood Hogan of all people!
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jking1979
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Post by jking1979 on May 25, 2020 15:53:30 GMT -5
Sting will always be the franchise of WCW. That is something that nobody can take away from him.
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briskski
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Post by briskski on May 25, 2020 21:36:51 GMT -5
I've often believed that Starrcade 1997 was the beginning of the end of WCW, with Starrcade 1998 putting a massive nail in the coffin. 97 was built around Sting/Hogan but like you said, Sting didn't do it clean. They had the Nitro rematch, then the third match where Sting had Savage's help. Again, looking like crap. The guy they built up by beating up 6 NWO dudes at once can't even beat Hogan clean. Then a few months later joining the NWO? Defies logic and diminishes Sting. WCW never had a long term plan for things. Case in point, the dismantling of Goldberg in 2 nights. If I'd have done it, I'd have kept Sting really strong as the crow for the year(maybe dropping the belt to keep it interesting, but having it back by August), while Goldberg picked up steam. Then built for a head to head Goldberg vs. Sting match at Starrcade 1998 with Goldberg going over and becoming The Man. That way, Sting "passes the torch" to Goldberg and they'd have had Goldberg going strong into 1999 instead of being the NWO's bitch. What's sad is a lot of wrestling fans seem to have more common sense about how these story lines should be played out, yet these bigwigs don't have a clue? It's like don't? you pay attention? too anything? Matches, ppv's, your competition, their ppv's?? I mean yeah that company's logic was beyond logical understanding. But still this is not hard boys...listen to the damn fans and use common sense. Regarding Starrcade 97, I remember that period well and it still gives me goosebumps when I think about watching those epic promos they did for it. By the time the match finished that was it for me, all steam was gone. When Sting came out looking like a bitch, there was no way in hell that they could salvage that. That event was the big dog of all their past and future events and it literally looked like they had just mashed the matches and finishes together at the last minute. I'm still "stinging" over that bout, even all these years later. It should have gone up there with the wrestlemania Warrior vs. Hogan match. Instead it looked like a b-show mid-carder getting his ass handed to him by an old man on saturday night back in 93. Sting can beat up 10 NWO guys, but can't beat old man Hogan?? What the hell!? The worse part of all this is even after everything they kept making Sting look like a chump. I thought Starrcade was a bad enough slap, but afterwards it got far worse in his bookings. I can't believe Sting even went along with any of it?!? Even as a business man he looks like a push over, while during that time he was bigger than Stone Cold was. Let's not forget he did get beaten by Triple H at his first and only wrestlemania. Need I say more. He had that power in his hands, but instead felt what he was doing was "good' for the business. Get the hell out of my face! Kevin Nash's remarks on that match are incredible too...it doesn't matter that the match was total horsecrap...fans should be happy the event took place even if it wasn't in a steel cage like he thought it should have been. Clearly Kev...you have done way too many drugs or something. That was the event that put a bullet in the heart of wcw's faithful. I just know Vince breathed a sigh of relief after it was done, cracked open a $40,000 bottle of 1820 Juglar Cuvee and began laughing hysterically.
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jking1979
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Post by jking1979 on May 25, 2020 22:30:25 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan got involved with the Sting and Bill Goldberg match as well.
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briskski
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Post by briskski on May 26, 2020 11:38:36 GMT -5
I found Sting in 1997 to be painful. I know a lot of people loved the angle, but he didn't wrestle at all. It was just a tease, for an entire year, longer even. Then we got the crap finish from Starcade. I don't mind a slow build, but it was literally a year between matches for Sting. I dont think he was hurt either. So WCW just decided to put one of their biggest babyface draws on the burner for an entire year. I just didn't like it. yeah, it was much too long of a build up. 3 or 4 months would have been fine. but the 15 (give or take) was just rediculous. i think it boiled down to sting having personal problems around then. the movie that he did, he said he had problems with alcohol/pills and it put a strain on his marriage. they way they turned him onto crow sting was perfect though. with the imposter sting being the bad guy, nobody beleived the real sting. and when he proved them wrong, he packed up his crap and left town. with that being said, i think he could have survived as surfer sting. he was still over with that gimmick. i dont think the fans took a dislike to him like they did with good ole red and yellow hogan being shoved down their mouths for so many years. Surfer Sting was running his course, I loved that period of Sting's look! But by the time the NWO angle came in he needed a change. I think it was cool how NWO was black'n white and they used those same colors for Sting as their opposer. Cool concept. Though I do think after the whole NWO thing ended he should have changed his look again to something else. It was not relative anymore by the time he came to WWE. Looked out of date. Joker Sting was a decent try but kind of stupid.
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wheeljack83
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Post by wheeljack83 on May 28, 2020 21:45:20 GMT -5
And yeah, Sting's in-ring ability was clearly fading around this time though he still had some good matches now and again. Sting was never the greatest worker bell to bell, but once he got older he clearly started losing a few steps, while still fairly athletic.
Post-Crow gimmick, the few great quality matches I recall him having were with Ric Flair, DDP, one semi-decent-ish match with Goldberg, a couple decent matches with Bret Hart but nothing great, a couple decent outings with Jeff Jarrett, but that's about it.
As JR says, Father time does no jobs.
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jking1979
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Post by jking1979 on Jul 3, 2020 22:27:09 GMT -5
Sting needs one good match in WWE.
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Post by JC Motors on Dec 23, 2020 13:51:53 GMT -5
Sting needs one good match in WWE. That ain't happening anytime soon
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kinnikuman
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Post by kinnikuman on Dec 23, 2020 14:18:25 GMT -5
I haven't read the thread, but the worst thing to ever happen to Sting was giving him the Crow gimmick.
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Post by jason88cubs on Jan 7, 2021 13:24:44 GMT -5
I haven't read the thread, but the worst thing to ever happen to Sting was giving him the Crow gimmick. what why>?!
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kinnikuman
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Post by kinnikuman on Jan 7, 2021 19:18:04 GMT -5
I haven't read the thread, but the worst thing to ever happen to Sting was giving him the Crow gimmick. what why>?! It was dumb? OOoooh spoOoOoky! Ripped off The Crow, was dark and gothic which wasn't Sting, was supposed to be their version of an Undertaker type, etc. It just screamed entertainment and that's not how I grew up with Sting or NWA/WCW. Sure, the nWo changed WCW so Crow Sting worked, but the whole things was just stupid. OoOOoh he's in the rafters!!!!
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on Aug 4, 2021 6:00:45 GMT -5
Been watching WCW in 1997 onwards and am now at July 1998. Wolfpac Sting is in full effect, and his character is basically a more laidback, frat-boy version of surfer Sting. Which feels so out of place for his new crow persona, especially considering he was this mysterious, silent, vengeful guy who had a tangible mystique.
I feel a) becoming almost the exact opposite of his crow character so abruptly and showing none of his previous brooding persona was a step in the wrong direction and made him too humanised too soon.
and b) joining the NWO, yes it was the Wolfpac, but it was still the NWO - went against everything Sting had been fighting for. Enemies with Nash, Macho, Konnan and then all of a sudden embracing the NWO name, logo and "Too Sweet" hand gesture just didn't make sense.
I do believe the Wolfpac would have been more effective without the NWO ties, and just the red shirt with the wolf on it, but they obviously had to keep the NWO going.
Having Sting and Luger join the NWO made no sense from a character aspect.
Although - suspension of disbelief - Sting in the red and black was cool AF and we got to see a different side to him - it may have suffered the character too soon.
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Ohtimate Wahriah
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Aug 7, 2021 11:33:45 GMT -5
Been watching WCW in 1997 onwards and am now at July 1998. Wolfpac Sting is in full effect, and his character is basically a more laidback, frat-boy version of surfer Sting. Which feels so out of place for his new crow persona, especially considering he was this mysterious, silent, vengeful guy who had a tangible mystique. I feel a) becoming almost the exact opposite of his crow character so abruptly and showing none of his previous brooding persona was a step in the wrong direction and made him too humanised too soon. and b) joining the NWO, yes it was the Wolfpac, but it was still the NWO - went against everything Sting had been fighting for. Enemies with Nash, Macho, Konnan and then all of a sudden embracing the NWO name, logo and "Too Sweet" hand gesture just didn't make sense. I do believe the Wolfpac would have been more effective without the NWO ties, and just the red shirt with the wolf on it, but they obviously had to keep the NWO going. Having Sting and Luger join the NWO made no sense from a character aspect. Although - suspension of disbelief - Sting in the red and black was cool AF and we got to see a different side to him - it may have suffered the character too soon. It IS odd to watch WCW ‘96 where Luger & Sting are so over fighting off the nWo, to think they eventually join them is weird haha. I guess Wolfpac was kinda like a “good” nWo, it was kinda like joining the enemy to defeat the bigger enemy. But it was whatever. I liked it at the time lol. It’s weird to think that Sting, Luger, Scott Steiner, Dream …all join the nWo
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Post by mikey1974 on Aug 7, 2021 16:30:46 GMT -5
Been watching WCW in 1997 onwards and am now at July 1998. Wolfpac Sting is in full effect, and his character is basically a more laidback, frat-boy version of surfer Sting. Which feels so out of place for his new crow persona, especially considering he was this mysterious, silent, vengeful guy who had a tangible mystique. I feel a) becoming almost the exact opposite of his crow character so abruptly and showing none of his previous brooding persona was a step in the wrong direction and made him too humanised too soon. and b) joining the NWO, yes it was the Wolfpac, but it was still the NWO - went against everything Sting had been fighting for. Enemies with Nash, Macho, Konnan and then all of a sudden embracing the NWO name, logo and "Too Sweet" hand gesture just didn't make sense. I do believe the Wolfpac would have been more effective without the NWO ties, and just the red shirt with the wolf on it, but they obviously had to keep the NWO going. Having Sting and Luger join the NWO made no sense from a character aspect. Although - suspension of disbelief - Sting in the red and black was cool AF and we got to see a different side to him - it may have suffered the character too soon. It IS odd to watch WCW ‘96 where Luger & Sting are so over fighting off the nWo, to think they eventually join them is weird haha. I guess Wolfpac was kinda like a “good” nWo, it was kinda like joining the enemy to defeat the bigger enemy. But it was whatever. I liked it at the time lol. It’s weird to think that Sting, Luger, Scott Steiner, Dream …all join the nWo They tried to turn nWo Wolfpac into their own version of D-X I always felt. Tried to be "cool" and "hip" rather than trying to take over.
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on Aug 8, 2021 4:22:07 GMT -5
It IS odd to watch WCW ‘96 where Luger & Sting are so over fighting off the nWo, to think they eventually join them is weird haha. I guess Wolfpac was kinda like a “good” nWo, it was kinda like joining the enemy to defeat the bigger enemy. But it was whatever. I liked it at the time lol. It’s weird to think that Sting, Luger, Scott Steiner, Dream …all join the nWo They tried to turn nWo Wolfpac into their own version of D-X I always felt. Tried to be "cool" and "hip" rather than trying to take over. Lol I just remember Konnan trying to get his new phrase over every show "WE BOUTY BOUTY, YOU ROWDY ROWDY"
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Ohtimate Wahriah
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Aug 8, 2021 18:08:04 GMT -5
They tried to turn nWo Wolfpac into their own version of D-X I always felt. Tried to be "cool" and "hip" rather than trying to take over. Lol I just remember Konnan trying to get his new phrase over every show "WE BOUTY BOUTY, YOU ROWDY ROWDY" Ugh, I genuinely hated Konnan. "Yo yo yo let me speak on dis! Orale! Arriba la Raza!” Blah…and whenever me and my brothers would wrestle, all the other submission moves actually hurt and the tequila sunrise didn’t hurt for ****. Lol. You see people on TV using then crippler cross face and that was the murderers finisher, you don’t see anybody using the damn Tequila Sunrise.
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on Aug 9, 2021 5:22:23 GMT -5
Lol I just remember Konnan trying to get his new phrase over every show "WE BOUTY BOUTY, YOU ROWDY ROWDY" Ugh, I genuinely hated Konnan. "Yo yo yo let me speak on dis! Orale! Arriba la Raza!” Blah…and whenever me and my brothers would wrestle, all the other submission moves actually hurt and the tequila sunrise didn’t hurt for ****. Lol. You see people on TV using then crippler cross face and that was the murderers finisher, you don’t see anybody using the damn Tequila Sunrise. Yeah and when you compare it to other submission finishers, it just was like "meh". No impact whatsoever. Liontamer, Crippler Crossface, Scorpion Deathlock - all looked badass. Not so much the Texas Cloverleaf, it's more of a lower card finisher. But the Tequila Sunrise I feel should have not been a match ender unless he was facing a lower card opponent. I know this is deviating from the original Sting's misuse topic - so I'll bring it back - Scorpion Deathlock vs the Sharpshooter. They could have built this as a big feud but they squandered any potential against Bret and they had one match together and a tag match and that was it? What a waste.
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