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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Dec 26, 2014 14:35:02 GMT -5
The "Billy Gunn was never called Mr. Ass" really is ludicrous. Everything else you've said Anvil Fan, I can at least accept as your opinion no matter how much I disagree with you. You're entitled to have that opinion no matter what. But there's clear proof his name was Mr. Ass. It was only for around 4-5 months in 1999 when the NAO first split, but it definitely happened. Here's an example: His titantron says Mr. Ass, the name graphic says Mr. Ass, he's announced as Mr. Ass and the commentators only refer to him as Mr. Ass. They didn't say Billy Gunn, not even once. I defy you to find me one video of a match out there where Bret Hart is not called Bret Hart and is only called Hitman throughout. You come off very angry, confrontational, and rude in a lot of the stuff you say. Maybe YOU should be called "Mr. Ass" on this board, since you seem to be making one of yourself. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2014 14:39:56 GMT -5
Yeah I remember Kerwin White's sidekick, man that guy was so talented, I'm surprised they didn't give him the world title then and there. Gimmicks are extremely important. Do you think if Bret Hart had stayed as a cowboy, that he'd have ended up being the greatest of all time? with a body of 5* matches exceeding every other wrestler ever? Doubt it. Titles don't mean now what they did then. And even less then than they did prior to that. Some of the greatest and most over wrestlers of all time never held a single title in the WWF. Off the top of my head this includes Jake Roberts, Vader, Bigelow, Brian Pillman and Orndorff. Then you have Miz as a former champion. He's clearly not better than the aforementioned, but his "resume" would suggest he is. Times are completely different now than they were back then. JBL was younger than Billy Gunn. Didn't have drug problems, didn't have an angle where he nearly married a man, and didn't have a long list of prior injuries. All the facts show that Billy Gunn was just a victim of circumstances. One of the best in ring wrestlers of his generation, and one of the most popular wrestlers in the most popular era of wrestling. Deal with it. Okay forget the titles, what about singles main events? How many of them did Billy Gunn have? What's that? None? Yeah that's what I thought. Unlike the people you have been trying to compare him to in this thread. Oh and apparently Billy Gunn is one of the best wrestlers of his generation? The same Billy Gunn who never had a great singles match in his life? I fully expect you to post a bunch of mediocre matches Billy had on TV and tell me they're great. As for your other points in this thread - Billy worked a program with Shawn Michaels? Don't make me laugh. Shawn worked a program with Sunny cuz he was  ing her in real life and Billy was just the guy who did the ring work. And even then I'd hardly call two episodes of Raw 'a program'. Billy's name was never Mr. Ass? That's what he was called on SmackDown 1. That's what the announcers called him. Very seldom, if at all, did you hear them call him "Mr. Ass" Billy Gunn. The facts show Billy Gunn was one of the best tag team wrestlers of his generation and that's it. No one gave a damn about Rockabilly or The One, which is why he quickly formed tag teams shortly after starting those gimmicks. There's a reason Edge and The Rock got two of their biggest most memorable promos based on telling Billy Gunn how much he sucked. Billy Gunn was even a face during the Edge one! Did you just completely skip over what I just said? Looks like you did, I suggest going back and reading it, because it will save me the troubles of writing the exact same reply again. Shawn saw a lot in Billy Gunn, that's why he handpicked the Outlaws himself to be in DX after he saw how over they were getting. It was delayed because of Tyson joining DX, so it didn't happen until after WM14. He was always referred to as Billy Gunn, never once did he drop the name Billy Gunn (obviously until he got to TNA). Mr. Ass was a nickname/gimmick name, regardless of 1 or 2 video games (which don't exactly have the best track records for accuracy). People Gave a Damn About The One. |
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 26, 2014 14:50:05 GMT -5
Billy Gunn has never had a great singles match. The HBK one in 1996 was good, not great.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2014 14:52:27 GMT -5
Billy Gunn has never had a great singles match. The HBK one in 1996 was good, not great. |
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 26, 2014 14:55:06 GMT -5
Billy Gunn has never had a great singles match. The HBK one in 1996 was good, not great.    |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2014 15:01:34 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2014 15:02:17 GMT -5
I agree that the WWE would have probably given him a World Title run on Smackdown if he was around currently, because seemingly everyone got one. However, let's look at the Champions of the past ten years. I'll start with the WWE Title to see who Billy was more talented than. JBL - Billy had more talent, JBL was way more over as a heel and earned this run John Cena - Nope. Edge - Please. Nope. Rob Van Dam - Negative. Randy Orton- Again, nope. Triple H - What a surprise, nope. Jeff Hardy - Nope. Batista - No. Sheamus - No. The Miz - Like JBL, Billy has more talent than him, but again, Miz was pretty great at drawing heat. CM Punk - Don't make me laugh. Nope. Rey Mysterio - No. Alberto Del Rio - No, but Billy was more over. The Rock - Ha. Daniel Bryan - Please. Not even ten levels below Bryan in talent. Brock Lesnar - No. So, maybe two guys that Billy was better than. Let's look at the World Title, which is the belt I could have seen Billy getting pushed to. I'll just use the guys I haven't mentioned yet. Kurt Angle - Ha. Never. King Booker - No. The Unertaker - Do I even have to say it? The Great Khali - Yes. Billy was more over and better than him. Khali won because of his size only. Chris Jericho - Never. Jack Swagger - No, but Billy was more over. Kane - No. Dolph Ziggler - Nope. Christian - No, but Billy was arguably more over. Mark Henry - Yes, but Henry was awesome during the Hall of Pain run Big Show - Yes. So three or four. Not "Billy had more talent than so many World Champions of the past 10 years." Three or four. Maybe. Of those listed, I would personally say JBL - Also around during the era, outlasted Billy. Edge - had 100x more charisma, but Billy had more talent. Sheamus - Yes. The Miz - Really? Alberto Del Rio - Absolutely no entertainment value in or out of the ring. Great Khali - No need to explain. Jack Swagger - No more charisma than Billy. Christian - Another case of someone who simply outlasted Billy to the point of a title run. Mark Henry - See above. Big Show - He's big. That's about it. There are others which could be argued but it's not really worth the argument. Billy Gunn is on my list of guys who could have been World Champions but weren't. He's not at the top of the list, but he's there. Along with guys like British Bulldog, Owen Hart, Mr. Perfect, Ken Shamrock, etc. Hold on there partner, Christian more than deserved it. He showed in his TNA run he could do it. |
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Post by Brunt's Left Foot on Dec 26, 2014 15:07:10 GMT -5
The "Billy Gunn was never called Mr. Ass" really is ludicrous. Everything else you've said Anvil Fan, I can at least accept as your opinion no matter how much I disagree with you. You're entitled to have that opinion no matter what. But there's clear proof his name was Mr. Ass. It was only for around 4-5 months in 1999 when the NAO first split, but it definitely happened. Here's an example: His titantron says Mr. Ass, the name graphic says Mr. Ass, he's announced as Mr. Ass and the commentators only refer to him as Mr. Ass. They didn't say Billy Gunn, not even once. I defy you to find me one video of a match out there where Bret Hart is not called Bret Hart and is only called Hitman throughout. You come off very angry, confrontational, and rude in a lot of the stuff you say. Maybe YOU should be called "Mr. Ass" on this board, since you seem to be making one of yourself. You're right, me pointing out how wrong Anvil Fan was really did make me look like an ass. Maybe I should lick his balls like some members here so I can fit in? |
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 26, 2014 15:07:27 GMT -5
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Post by Brunt's Left Foot on Dec 26, 2014 15:09:24 GMT -5
Okay forget the titles, what about singles main events? How many of them did Billy Gunn have? What's that? None? Yeah that's what I thought. Unlike the people you have been trying to compare him to in this thread. Oh and apparently Billy Gunn is one of the best wrestlers of his generation? The same Billy Gunn who never had a great singles match in his life? I fully expect you to post a bunch of mediocre matches Billy had on TV and tell me they're great. As for your other points in this thread - Billy worked a program with Shawn Michaels? Don't make me laugh. Shawn worked a program with Sunny cuz he was ing her in real life and Billy was just the guy who did the ring work. And even then I'd hardly call two episodes of Raw 'a program'. Billy's name was never Mr. Ass? That's what he was called on SmackDown 1. That's what the announcers called him. Very seldom, if at all, did you hear them call him "Mr. Ass" Billy Gunn. The facts show Billy Gunn was one of the best tag team wrestlers of his generation and that's it. No one gave a damn about Rockabilly or The One, which is why he quickly formed tag teams shortly after starting those gimmicks. There's a reason Edge and The Rock got two of their biggest most memorable promos based on telling Billy Gunn how much he sucked. Billy Gunn was even a face during the Edge one! Did you just completely skip over what I just said? Looks like you did, I suggest going back and reading it, because it will save me the troubles of writing the exact same reply again. Shawn saw a lot in Billy Gunn, that's why he handpicked the Outlaws himself to be in DX after he saw how over they were getting. It was delayed because of Tyson joining DX, so it didn't happen until after WM14. He was always referred to as Billy Gunn, never once did he drop the name Billy Gunn (obviously until he got to TNA). Mr. Ass was a nickname/gimmick name, regardless of 1 or 2 video games (which don't exactly have the best track records for accuracy). People Gave a Damn About The One. And you obviously skipped my Mr. Ass post which clearly proved you wrong. Or to be a liar. You admitting to either one would be fine with me. There's a reason you can only cite Billy Gunn getting three pops because it was probably the one three he ever received as a singles guy. Nobody anywhere ever pushed Billy Gunn as a main eventer. The facts speak for themselves. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2014 15:20:32 GMT -5
Did you just completely skip over what I just said? Looks like you did, I suggest going back and reading it, because it will save me the troubles of writing the exact same reply again. Shawn saw a lot in Billy Gunn, that's why he handpicked the Outlaws himself to be in DX after he saw how over they were getting. It was delayed because of Tyson joining DX, so it didn't happen until after WM14. He was always referred to as Billy Gunn, never once did he drop the name Billy Gunn (obviously until he got to TNA). Mr. Ass was a nickname/gimmick name, regardless of 1 or 2 video games (which don't exactly have the best track records for accuracy). People Gave a Damn About The One. And you obviously skipped my Mr. Ass post which clearly proved you wrong. Or to be a liar. You admitting to either one would be fine with me. There's a reason you can only cite Billy Gunn getting three pops because it was probably the one three he ever received as a singles guy. Nobody anywhere ever pushed Billy Gunn as a main eventer. The facts speak for themselves. I didn't see it when I was writing my other reply. And came to the conclusion that a 4 minute video is absolutely worthless when you consider that before and after that, he was referred to as Billy Gunn. He's referred to as Mr. Ass yes, but it's still a nickname. He's still Billy Gunn. Always was. Or I didn't feel like posting tons and tons of videos. I should have known that you'd come up with a lovely cop out or that too though after being proven wrong again. |
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 26, 2014 15:22:08 GMT -5
Too many videos on this page. It loads like crap.
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Post by Brunt's Left Foot on Dec 26, 2014 15:53:51 GMT -5
Too many videos on this page. It loads like crap. Welcome to 90% of Anvil Fan's posts. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Dec 26, 2014 17:05:39 GMT -5
That's it. This has gone on way too long. JokerFC you may as well lock this thread now. It's gone from a friendly debate to people centering @cabbageconkers in every response he says. But when you look at it, 6 pages later.... for a guy like Billy Gunn, who wasn't 'over' or a 'main event' guy, he got more pages to a topic about him than most do on here. |
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 26, 2014 17:08:42 GMT -5
That's it. This has gone on way too long. JokerFC you may as well lock this thread now. It's gone from a friendly debate to people centering @cabbageconkers in every response he says. But when you look at it, 6 pages later.... for a guy like Billy Gunn, who wasn't 'over' or a 'main event' guy, he got more pages to a topic about him than most do on here. I do agree that it needs to be locked. It's easy to get a six page thread when it's a debate about whether someone is main event or not. If a thread was made about "Is the Great Khali a main event talent?" and I went in and kept saying that he was even when people said he wasn't, it would make it to six pages also. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2014 17:12:33 GMT -5
That's it. This has gone on way too long. JokerFC you may as well lock this thread now. It's gone from a friendly debate to people centering @cabbageconkers in every response he says. But when you look at it, 6 pages later.... for a guy like Billy Gunn, who wasn't 'over' or a 'main event' guy, he got more pages to a topic about him than most do on here. It's a shame when people have to resort to childishness and personal digs instead of coming up with comprehensive arguments. Ah well. |
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Post by TheSystem 1.5 on Dec 26, 2014 17:29:03 GMT -5
We owe Joker a pint of he black stuff for his hard work
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Post by Brunt's Left Foot on Dec 26, 2014 18:41:11 GMT -5
Yeah, it's a shame people had to resort to calling me an ass instead of backing up their points.
Ah well.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 2:09:18 GMT -5
I had thought yesterday that this one may end up locked.....but I will always give threads in here a little longer.
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