The IT Factor
Mid-Carder
If you want some, come and get some!
Joined on: May 9, 2013 8:06:28 GMT -5
Posts: 232
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Post by The IT Factor on Nov 17, 2015 16:02:20 GMT -5
No, it didn't, because live reports said the crowd was leaving before & during that segment. The majority of people didn't care about The Divas before that segment, and they don't now. If you go back and watch like I did an hour or so ago you'll notice people aren't leaving. People who were at the show said that people were leaving during that segment. From spam.com :
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Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 15:27:23 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2015 16:08:05 GMT -5
If you go back and watch like I did an hour or so ago you'll notice people aren't leaving. People who were at the show said that people were leaving during that segment. From spam.com : spam is a joke of a website. Copy and paste 9 times out of 10 and when they're not doing that they're making up articles for click bait.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Nov 17, 2015 16:15:13 GMT -5
I guess what we have learned from this, is that for some wrestling fans to be entertained, the bad guy has to say, "I hate you!" and the good guy say, "Those are words that are not nice. Therefore I must avenge this by having a match with you."
Dare the WWE crosses any lines or anything. For years the fans have wanted WWE to get edgy and when it does, the fans cry like babies about it. I take it you wrestling fans weren't around in the ECW days, or the Monday Night War days, because a lot more horrible, twisted stuff took place then.
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Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 15:27:23 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2015 16:18:03 GMT -5
I guess what we have learned from this, is that for some wrestling fans to be entertained, the bad guy has to say, "I hate you!" and the good guy say, "Those are words that are not nice. Therefore I must avenge this by having a match with you." Dare the WWE crosses any lines or anything. For years the fans have wanted WWE to get edgy and when it does, the fans cry like babies about it. I take it you wrestling fans weren't around in the ECW days, or the Monday Night War days, because a lot more horrible, twisted stuff took place then. That would by far be the most hilarious feud ever. Just the thought of it. It's so edgy that heel guy can hate face guy and then face guy has to avenge that hatred. I cannot wait to know who wins. Lol people complaining about such a remark that Paige made have no idea the things she could have said 20 years ago had this happened. Ten bucks says heroin would have been mentioned. If they're crying this much now good Lord I don't want to know what they'd have done then.
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Post by TheLastDude on Nov 17, 2015 16:17:51 GMT -5
Of course it's lazy and cheap heat. The writers are completely clueless as to how to effect a response from crowds nowadays.
When you're stumped...go with the ol' stand-by!
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Nov 17, 2015 16:29:42 GMT -5
I'm not "butthurt" about the comments or anything like that. I get that they wanted the feud to feel more personal. I just always felt that using a dead person to draw heat is so lazy and cheap. Similar to when a heel comes to a town and puts down the local sports team. It can be effective, but it's so cheap.
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Post by ricflair4ever on Nov 17, 2015 16:48:55 GMT -5
I'm not outraged or offended by this storyline. I'm all for WWE trying to make any issue personal (divas or the guys) as its a breath of fresh air lately. But, (que the HHH voice) "heres the thing"......it is indeed lazy writing. Cheap heat for sure. So , Beth Flair is right on the money there. However, the flip side is, Reid Flair was /is the focal point of a major storyline that closed out an episode of RAW. I'm guessing the reason anyone named Flair would sign off on his name being dropped, is because they feel he would be quite happy with his posthumous involvement in the angle. Since Reid was not able to make it to that level during his time in WWE developmental.
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Post by King Richius on Nov 17, 2015 17:01:50 GMT -5
You really can't argue with her, particularly the hashtag #cheapheat. Thats exactly what it was. It was mild though in comparison to what Punk did spreading Paul Bearer's fake ashes on Taker so soon after his death or Bossman hijacking Big Show's father's casket at the funeral. In some strange way I'm sure Bearer would have been delighted with still being included in that storyline. Man had been in the business for years. Unlike Reid. That whole segment was awkward. I think Paul would have approved as well. I remember reading that his sons were consulted beforehand and said it was okay. Just pointing out that some viewers found it tasteless using the fake ashes of a dead person as part of an angle. I think there were even a few gullible people who thought the ashes were real who were really irate.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Nov 17, 2015 17:14:30 GMT -5
I'm not "butthurt" about the comments or anything like that. I get that they wanted the feud to feel more personal. I just always felt that using a dead person to draw heat is so lazy and cheap. Similar to when a heel comes to a town and puts down the local sports team. It can be effective, but it's so cheap. So what you are saying is then is that you find everything that a heel does to get over as a heel to be cheap...?? Well, gosh darn it, you figured it out! A heel is supposed to say cheap things like that to get hated, or how else would a heel get hated?? By having a 5 star wrestling match with the face?? No. By talking trash about his opponents family?? Yes.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Nov 17, 2015 17:27:12 GMT -5
I'm not "butthurt" about the comments or anything like that. I get that they wanted the feud to feel more personal. I just always felt that using a dead person to draw heat is so lazy and cheap. Similar to when a heel comes to a town and puts down the local sports team. It can be effective, but it's so cheap. So what you are saying is then is that you find everything that a heel does to get over as a heel to be cheap...?? Well, gosh darn it, you figured it out! A heel is supposed to say cheap things like that to get hated, or how else would a heel get hated?? By having a 5 star wrestling match with the face?? No. By talking trash about his opponents family?? Yes. Sigh. There are ways to be hated and not go for the diss of the local sports team or say things about a dead person. Tons of great heels have done it. Why do you think a guy like Jerry Lawler was always such a good heel, but his WWF stuff was so blah? It's because in the WWF, he just constantly went for cheap heat. Kevin Owens for example, is the best heel in the WWE. He doesn't need to do those things to get heat. He makes you hate him in other ways. Randy Orton made people hate him in 2009 by going after Triple H's family and DDTing Stephanie before kissing her. He didn't have to say anything about a dead relative. There are multiple ways to be despicable without being cheap. It's absolutely asinine to sit there and sarcastically say that, because I dislike cheap heat (which is lazy), I find everything a heel does to be cheap. That is not at all the case. I mentioned the local sports team diss and the dead person stuff. That's it.
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Post by Rob on Nov 17, 2015 17:27:35 GMT -5
The fact the crowd was dead as made it awkward. I still dont understand why they closed the show with that segment.
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Post by PJ on Nov 17, 2015 17:31:45 GMT -5
Honestly she should be upset with Charlotte. She could have said no to the Reid angle. But she chose to allow it. But in any case I thought the whole segment was horribly done. I didn't believe any of it.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Nov 17, 2015 17:33:12 GMT -5
I agree it was disgusting and uncalled but then again so was Punk making fun of Paul Bearer's death and yet everyone loved that for some weird reason.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Nov 17, 2015 17:35:34 GMT -5
So what you are saying is then is that you find everything that a heel does to get over as a heel to be cheap...?? Well, gosh darn it, you figured it out! A heel is supposed to say cheap things like that to get hated, or how else would a heel get hated?? By having a 5 star wrestling match with the face?? No. By talking trash about his opponents family?? Yes. Sigh. There are ways to be hated and not go for the diss of the local sports team or say things about a dead person. Tons of great heels have done it. Why do you think a guy like Jerry Lawler was always such a good heel, but his WWF stuff was so blah? It's because in the WWF, he just constantly went for cheap heat. Kevin Owens for example, is the best heel in the WWE. He doesn't need to do those things to get heat. He makes you hate him in other ways. Randy Orton made people hate him in 2009 by going after Triple H's family and DDTing Stephanie before kissing her. He didn't have to say anything about a dead relative. There are multiple ways to be despicable without being cheap. It's absolutely asinine to sit there and sarcastically say that, because I dislike cheap heat (which is lazy), I find everything a heel does to be cheap. That is not at all the case. I mentioned the local sports team diss and the dead person stuff. That's it. First of all, I am guessing you never seen any of Jerry Lawler's Memphis wrestling stuff. The guy was a heel much like Paige was on Raw. He would cross lines constantly. Secondly, you can't be serious about Kevin Owens being the best heel. For the simple reason that over 75% (maybe even more) people on this forum alone love Kevin Owens, and when he comes out to wrestle on Raw or at a PPV, well over 50% of the crowd stand up and cheer and chant "Fight Owens Fight". I didn't know that to be a heel now you have to get cheered?? Randy Orton ddting Stephanie is on par with Paige dissing Ried Flair to Charlotte. Instead of physical, it was just verbal. I saw nothing wrong in what Paige did. The fact that you 'hardcore' wrestling fans are so butt hurt over this is just ridiculous when they would say and do that type of stuff for years in territories.
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Post by sitruC on Nov 17, 2015 17:42:42 GMT -5
Didn't interest or entertain me.
Would've worked without it, worked with it anyway.
It sucked either way.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Nov 17, 2015 17:46:32 GMT -5
Sigh. There are ways to be hated and not go for the diss of the local sports team or say things about a dead person. Tons of great heels have done it. Why do you think a guy like Jerry Lawler was always such a good heel, but his WWF stuff was so blah? It's because in the WWF, he just constantly went for cheap heat. Kevin Owens for example, is the best heel in the WWE. He doesn't need to do those things to get heat. He makes you hate him in other ways. Randy Orton made people hate him in 2009 by going after Triple H's family and DDTing Stephanie before kissing her. He didn't have to say anything about a dead relative. There are multiple ways to be despicable without being cheap. It's absolutely asinine to sit there and sarcastically say that, because I dislike cheap heat (which is lazy), I find everything a heel does to be cheap. That is not at all the case. I mentioned the local sports team diss and the dead person stuff. That's it. First of all, I am guessing you never seen any of Jerry Lawler's Memphis wrestling stuff. The guy was a heel much like Paige was on Raw. He would cross lines constantly. Secondly, you can't be serious about Kevin Owens being the best heel. For the simple reason that over 75% (maybe even more) people on this forum alone love Kevin Owens, and when he comes out to wrestle on Raw or at a PPV, well over 50% of the crowd stand up and cheer and chant "Fight Owens Fight". I didn't know that to be a heel now you have to get cheered?? Randy Orton ddting Stephanie is on par with Paige dissing Ried Flair to Charlotte. Instead of physical, it was just verbal. I saw nothing wrong in what Paige did. The fact that you 'hardcore' wrestling fans are so butt hurt over this is just ridiculous when they would say and do that type of stuff for years in territories. First of all, at the request of some others I've seen some Memphis Jerry stuff. I'm okay with crossing lines and again, I never said that I wasn't. I mentioned 2 things specifically that I thought were cheap. Local sports team jokes and using a dead person. Again, I don't mind characters crossing lines. Please understand that part. Secondly, yea, Kevin Owens is popular. Your sarcasm again at "I didn't know that to be a heel now you have to get cheered" is unappreciated. Obviously, he's popular. However, he does things to try and get the crowd to boo him. When he faced Finn Balor in Brooklyn, he purposely avoided doing big spots to mess with the crowd. When I went to see NXT live in Cleveland and Columbus, he purposely worked rest holds to get the fans to boo. He turned on the most popular sympathetic babyface in the company and continually berates him at every turn. The fans still cheer because he's too good to boo, but make no mistake, he does a ton to try and draw more heat. Can you name another heel that consistently tries? Seth Rollins would be the only one, but even he busted out the big babyface spots during matches sometimes. Again, my issue with last night wasn't about "it's on the same level as what Orton did." It came off as cheap to me. Look at what I'm writing as if I'm saying "I don't care how offensive the words were" and look at it as me saying "it's a lazy way to draw heat". That's my issue with it. Not the controversy side of it. No need for the little attempt with the 'hardcore' wrestling fans in quotations. I never once called myself that in this thread and I absolutely understand that these things were done in the territories.
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Miztery
Superstar
Joined on: Dec 30, 2014 0:16:59 GMT -5
Posts: 892
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Post by Miztery on Nov 17, 2015 17:48:38 GMT -5
Very few people should be allowed to break kayfabe on tv. Whether it's intentional or not. Watching CM Punk and Triple H go at it and bring reality into their promos was awesome. Same with Cena/Rock. But Paige doesn't have the credentials or the mic talent to do so. And no one should ever mock someone that died.
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Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 15:27:23 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2015 17:50:39 GMT -5
Sigh. There are ways to be hated and not go for the diss of the local sports team or say things about a dead person. Tons of great heels have done it. Why do you think a guy like Jerry Lawler was always such a good heel, but his WWF stuff was so blah? It's because in the WWF, he just constantly went for cheap heat. Kevin Owens for example, is the best heel in the WWE. He doesn't need to do those things to get heat. He makes you hate him in other ways. Randy Orton made people hate him in 2009 by going after Triple H's family and DDTing Stephanie before kissing her. He didn't have to say anything about a dead relative. There are multiple ways to be despicable without being cheap. It's absolutely asinine to sit there and sarcastically say that, because I dislike cheap heat (which is lazy), I find everything a heel does to be cheap. That is not at all the case. I mentioned the local sports team diss and the dead person stuff. That's it. First of all, I am guessing you never seen any of Jerry Lawler's Memphis wrestling stuff. The guy was a heel much like Paige was on Raw. He would cross lines constantly. Secondly, you can't be serious about Kevin Owens being the best heel. For the simple reason that over 75% (maybe even more) people on this forum alone love Kevin Owens, and when he comes out to wrestle on Raw or at a PPV, well over 50% of the crowd stand up and cheer and chant "Fight Owens Fight". I didn't know that to be a heel now you have to get cheered?? Randy Orton ddting Stephanie is on par with Paige dissing Ried Flair to Charlotte. Instead of physical, it was just verbal. I saw nothing wrong in what Paige did. The fact that you 'hardcore' wrestling fans are so butt hurt over this is just ridiculous when they would say and do that type of stuff for years in territories. Well that's the end of the thread right there. Well said.
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Post by Suckasays on Nov 17, 2015 17:55:43 GMT -5
I understand Charlottes mom not being ok with this if she didn't know about it beforehand.
But the casual wrestling fan...to each their own. As much as people have constantly clamored about how great The attitude era was, there's no possible way it could work today considering people are easily bothered by anything and everything.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Nov 17, 2015 17:57:36 GMT -5
I understand Charlottes mom not being ok with this if she didn't know about it beforehand. But the casual wrestling fan...to each their own. As much as people have constantly clamored about how great The attitude era was, there's no possible way it could work today considering people are easily bothered by anything and everything. That's honestly one of the things that made the AE work so well. It came at a time when the world was completely into that style (South Park and Jerry Springer were huge in that era). Now it just wouldn't fly because everyone has to be super PC all the time.
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