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Post by carly1988 on Mar 4, 2008 0:49:18 GMT -5
as i remember 10 years ago HBK being world champion steam rolling over Sparky Plug, Aldo Montoya, TL Hopper and Dr Issac Yankem, then dancing around taking his clothes off talking about how all the men wanted to be him and all the women wanted him.......Funny part is I remember Flair doing it about 10 years before him...Way to be original Does anyone else not realize the talent pool HBK had to go through when he was on top (96-early 97) There wasnt anyone in the WWF. Who else were they gonna get to carry the ship?? HBK and Hart were the only two that Vince could rely on. When Bret took off HBK was "the man" by default. What matches other then the ones with Hart can HBK say were truly classic for the WWE championship??? His title defense against the worst big man in sports, Sid? Or his 5 star classics with Vader and Mankind that nobody watched cause they were all tuned into Nitro and the nWo. The back injury and his ego hurt HBKs career more then anything. He would either "layout" cause of an injury and miss time so he wouldnt have to job to a Hart and then he had the back injury and went on the shelf and couldnt be there for the attitude era throughout the rock/austin/HHH times. If HBK would have been able to stick around and didnt have to take 4 years off then yea i would probably consider him a top 10 great but when you're the champ and your roster looks like a cast of cartoon characters then its just not gonna work for me. Even when flair spent a year in the WWF the roster was at top notch with Hogan, Von Erich, Savage, Perfect, Lawler, Warrior and even Hart and Michaels Once again, your argument is invalid, do you know what Shawn Michaels reputation in the ring is? They say he can make a mop look good. And you can't say that since most of the roster in the mid to late nineties sucked, that it's the only reason why HBK looks great in the ring. Did you forget about his 2002 return and how strong the roster was? Yet still Shawn was looked at as the greatest. My point is that no matter if it's Henry Godwin or Chris Jericho, Shawn Michaels shines on every PPV. Incase you didnt notice, people always say, "Michaels had the match of the night". The only thing thats invalid is your brain if you think Flair is "just another jabroni" Without Flair and Hogan, Michaels would be managing a Target in San Antonio. My problem isnt with whos better or whos more over the problem is you little snot nose kids that have no respect for the business or the men that created it. Nobody is bigger then the business but bygod Flair, Hogan and Muta come damn closer then anyone else in wrestling.
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brethartfan97
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jul 10, 2006 0:59:31 GMT -5
Posts: 1,994
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Post by brethartfan97 on Mar 4, 2008 0:50:35 GMT -5
I watched Flair versus Sting for the WCW title today from 90 and guess what! Flair sucks. His puffy locks were distracting you.
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 21, 2024 0:31:23 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2008 0:56:33 GMT -5
Once again, your argument is invalid, do you know what Shawn Michaels reputation in the ring is? They say he can make a mop look good. And you can't say that since most of the roster in the mid to late nineties sucked, that it's the only reason why HBK looks great in the ring. Did you forget about his 2002 return and how strong the roster was? Yet still Shawn was looked at as the greatest. My point is that no matter if it's Henry Godwin or Chris Jericho, Shawn Michaels shines on every PPV. Incase you didnt notice, people always say, "Michaels had the match of the night". The only thing thats invalid is your brain if you think Flair is "just another jabroni" Without Flair and Hogan, Michaels would be managing a Target in San Antonio. My problem isnt with whos better or whos more over the problem is you little snot nose kids that have no respect for the business or the men that created it. Nobody is bigger then the business but bygod Flair, Hogan and Muta come damn closer then anyone else in wrestling. It's actually the opposite, Flair and Hogan have zero respect for the 90's wrestlers. They stuck around and hogged the glory from Shawn Michaels, Sting, Bret Hart, and others. Now Flair is hogging the glory in the 2000's. Why can't Michaels get a belivable opponent like Benjamin or burke?
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Post by joebaia88 on Mar 4, 2008 0:59:20 GMT -5
Flair is overrated, sure I didn't grow up in the 80's but I watched alot of his stuff, his matches in the NWA with Dust, Ricky Steamboat, Harley Race, the 4-Horsmen stable, his matches in WCW. Nothing too great about him. It's statements like this that are the reason why the IWC will never be taken seriously. I can't even think where to begin with what is wrong with the above statement. I'm not saying Flair should be everyone's favourite wrestler, but Jesus, even the most fickle, short sighted indie fan boy types should be able to realise just how much he has done for the business. To call Ric Flair overrated isn't just a slap in the face to the wrestling business, it's taking a huge dump on it and lighting it on fire. I'd be truly fascinated as to which wrestlers you feel are truly great and not overrated like Flair.
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Post by carly1988 on Mar 4, 2008 1:06:11 GMT -5
The only thing thats invalid is your brain if you think Flair is "just another jabroni" Without Flair and Hogan, Michaels would be managing a Target in San Antonio. My problem isnt with whos better or whos more over the problem is you little snot nose kids that have no respect for the business or the men that created it. Nobody is bigger then the business but bygod Flair, Hogan and Muta come damn closer then anyone else in wrestling. It's actually the opposite, Flair and Hogan have zero respect for the 90's wrestlers. They stuck around and hogged the glory from Shawn Michaels, Sting, Bret Hart, and others. Now Flair is hogging the glory in the 2000's. Why can't Michaels get a belivable opponent like Benjamin or burke? Ill admit that Hogan has no respect for guys from 90s on but how can you say flair is hogging the glory?? In the past 7 years since hes got into WWE what the hell has he done to hog the glory?? Hell the greatest wrestler in out life time as spent more time on his back then a .$50 hooker. Who in the hell has HBK put over since 02? HBK has had to be at the top since returning the entire time. His ego is too big to be jobbing out to anyone younger.
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Post by Mark on Mar 4, 2008 1:07:33 GMT -5
flair will job to anyone
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Post by joebaia88 on Mar 4, 2008 1:15:29 GMT -5
The only thing thats invalid is your brain if you think Flair is "just another jabroni" Without Flair and Hogan, Michaels would be managing a Target in San Antonio. My problem isnt with whos better or whos more over the problem is you little snot nose kids that have no respect for the business or the men that created it. Nobody is bigger then the business but bygod Flair, Hogan and Muta come damn closer then anyone else in wrestling. It's actually the opposite, Flair and Hogan have zero respect for the 90's wrestlers. They stuck around and hogged the glory from Shawn Michaels, Sting, Bret Hart, and others. Now Flair is hogging the glory in the 2000's. Why can't Michaels get a belivable opponent like Benjamin or burke? Benjamin or Burke? That's priceless! Yeah, because Shawn Michaels vs Shelton Benjamin would draw at WrestleMania. Oh no wait, Michaels/Burke is the way to go, that's a sure fire money maker! Utter madness. How did Flair hog the glory from Bret Hart exactly? He dropped the WWF Title to him! He also practically made Sting the draw he is today through the work he put into their feuds with each other in the late 80's/early 90's. Without Flair, who knows where Sting would be? Certainly nowhere near the status he is now in the twilight of his career. Sting would be the first guy to admit that he owes a ton to Ric Flair. And, for the record, Flair tried to get Kenny Dykstra over at the start of last year. He laid down for him and tried his best to get the youngster over, but guess what, Dykstra was and still is ridiculously green. Now, when your being put over by a guy like Ric Flair and your still dwindling around not making progress, you know there's something wrong with you. The responsibility for that failure lies at the feet of Dykstra, not Flair or creative. They gave him a ball to run with, and he didn't have the legs. He's since been moved to SmackDown! where he's Victoria's toyboy and God knows when he'll be doing anything worthwhile. So there's just one recent example of Flair apparently 'hogging' the glory. How about from 2003-2005 where, for the most part, he was HHH's manager in Evolution and only a part time wrestler, occasionally tagging with Batista? Was he hogging the glory then? I think you'll find both Orton and Batista gained priceless advice from Flair during that time, advice which will no doubt have helped them no end since they pursued single careers away from Evolution. Opinions don't even come into this, I don't care how unfair or narrow minded that sounds, Ric Flair deserves his own wing in the Hall Of Fame he's done that much for the business. He's inspired countless superstars to give wrestling a shot and has also created several household names himself simply by feuding with guys and making them look like a million dollars. Ask Steve Austin, HBK, Kurt Angle, The Rock, HHH, Jim Ross and God knows who else who is the best the business has ever seen, and they'll be sure to tell you it's The Nature Boy Ric Flair.
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Post by joebaia88 on Mar 4, 2008 1:20:08 GMT -5
It's statements like this that are the reason why the IWC will never be taken seriously. I can't even think where to begin with what is wrong with the above statement. I'm not saying Flair should be everyone's favourite wrestler, but Jesus, even the most fickle, short sighted indie fan boy types should be able to realise just how much he has done for the business. To call Ric Flair overrated isn't just a slap in the face to the wrestling business, it's taking a huge dump on it and lighting it on fire. I'd be truly fascinated as to which wrestlers you feel are truly great and not overrated like Flair. Sorry, I forgot, this is WF, we are not allowd to have opinons. When it comes to someone as legendary as Ric Flair, I don't think opinions should even come into it. Again, I'm not saying every wrestling fan should be his number 1 fan, but they should at least respect his phenomenal contribution to the business. Labelling Flair overrated is like saying Robert De Niro or Al Pacino or Daniel Day Lewis are overrated actors. It's nonsense and if you can't see just how much Ric Flair has done for the wrestling business then I'm sorry, I don't know how to help you at this point.
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Post by Creative Has Nothing for Me on Mar 4, 2008 1:21:06 GMT -5
How many decades ago was this?..... Very Terra Ryzing....
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Post by Iron Man on Mar 4, 2008 1:21:59 GMT -5
Sorry, I forgot, this is WF, we are not allowd to have opinons. When it comes to someone as legendary as Ric Flair, I don't think opinions should even come into it. Again, I'm not saying every wrestling fan should be his number 1 fan, but they should at least respect his phenomenal contribution to the business. Labelling Flair overrated is like saying Robert De Niro or Al Pacino or Daniel Day Lewis are overrated actors. It's nonsense and if you can't see just how much Ric Flair has done for the wrestling business then I'm sorry, I don't know how to help you at this point. I never said anything about what he has done in the past. I just think the guy is overrated to be named the best ever.
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Post by Mark on Mar 4, 2008 1:25:58 GMT -5
austin did a lot for the buisness
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Post by joebaia88 on Mar 4, 2008 1:26:29 GMT -5
When it comes to someone as legendary as Ric Flair, I don't think opinions should even come into it. Again, I'm not saying every wrestling fan should be his number 1 fan, but they should at least respect his phenomenal contribution to the business. Labelling Flair overrated is like saying Robert De Niro or Al Pacino or Daniel Day Lewis are overrated actors. It's nonsense and if you can't see just how much Ric Flair has done for the wrestling business then I'm sorry, I don't know how to help you at this point. I never said anything about what he has done in the past. I just think the guy is overrated to be named the best ever. So you didn't say you watched his matches against Race, Dusty, Steamboat as well as his 4 Horsemen stuff? Or did I just dream that? Did you not say there was nothing too great about him? Just out of interest, who would you nominate as the greatest of all time?
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Post by Iron Man on Mar 4, 2008 1:29:24 GMT -5
I never said anything about what he has done in the past. I just think the guy is overrated to be named the best ever. So you didn't say you watched his matches against Race, Dusty, Steamboat as well as his 4 Horsemen stuff? Or did I just dream that? Did you not say there was nothing too great about him? Just out of interest, who would you nominate as the greatest of all time? I said his matches were nothing to special. He still did alot with his promos/segments etc but not like you guys make it out to be. As for the best, it depends. If you mean best wrestler or sports entertainer or who has done more for the business. More for the Business- Hogan/Austin > Flair Better Wrestler- Bret Hart > Flair Better Entertainer HBK > Flair
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E-Noon
Main Eventer
"Classic"
Joined on: Mar 30, 2004 17:11:23 GMT -5
Posts: 3,567
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Post by E-Noon on Mar 4, 2008 1:30:33 GMT -5
LOL, Orton as a heel he really cant play the part. I do remember loving him as a face though, . TBH, Im kinda not looking forward to this match. I mean how long of a match is Flair really going to put on? Im sure they'll bust out a ladder have a couple high spots but I cant imagine this being too good of a match.
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Post by joebaia88 on Mar 4, 2008 1:45:38 GMT -5
So you didn't say you watched his matches against Race, Dusty, Steamboat as well as his 4 Horsemen stuff? Or did I just dream that? Did you not say there was nothing too great about him? Just out of interest, who would you nominate as the greatest of all time? I said his matches were nothing to special. He still did alot with his promos/segments etc but not like you guys make it out to be. As for the best, it depends. If you mean best wrestler or sports entertainer or who has done more for the business. More for the Business- Hogan/Austin > Flair Better Wrestler- Bret Hart > Flair Better Entertainer HBK > Flair Your forgetting the fact that it was Flair who inspired HBK to get into wrestling. He also inspired countless others no doubt, and like I already said, got plenty more others over in the process. As for HBK being a better entertainer, that's a matter of opinion. Michaels is great to watch and can work the face and heel roles equally well, but he's borrowed a ton of stuff from Flair, and he'd be the first person to admit that. So in that respect, Flair really is the better entertainer, because he was flying around with the Horsemen long before Michaels started up DX and began to moon us. There's no denying Hogan helped the business a ton, but let's remember, Vince had originally planned for Kerry Von Erich to play Hogan's role, but due to Kerry's drug problems etc, he didn't get the gig. So Hogan caught a lucky break there because at the time, Kerry was a huge draw down in WCCW and, had he kicked his drug habit, could have definately been the same draw as Hogan. But then you look at how well Hogan did for the business, and then you look at how he pissed all over the end of WrestleMania IX by having to win the title from Yoko after the main event. He then dropped the title back to Yoko at KOTR '93 because he didn't want to put Bret Hart over. Then that's before all the WCW backstage nonsense that he pulled. As long as him and his friends were happy, that's all that mattered to Hogan. He looked out for number 1, and if he was ok, who the cared about the rest of the promotion? Remember also, Hogan was supposed to lose to HBK in a rematch of their Summerslam match at Unforgiven 2005, but due to that convenient 'creative control' clause in his contract, he decided against putting Michaels over, despite the fact a defeat would have done nothing to hurt his legacy. So, whilst Hogan's drawing power and influence is unquestionable, his personality and attitude, in my opinion, sour a lot of the good work he and Vince did together. I believe had Flair had the same PR machine as Hogan behind him, he would have been an equal success.
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Post by HHH316 on Mar 4, 2008 1:50:03 GMT -5
Every year people bitch about how bad WM is going to be. Get over it already.
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Post by Ultimate Figure Collector on Mar 4, 2008 2:03:40 GMT -5
Flair sucks now a days. All he does is chop and do back drops. He's als become sloppy. HBK and Flair never really clicked in the ring together so I'm not expecting much at all from the HBK/Flair match. This will no doubt be HBK's worst WrestlerMania match since his return.
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Post by Quanthor on Mar 4, 2008 2:08:56 GMT -5
yeah wrestlemania doesnt look very special this year.. This might go down as the worst WM ever.
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Post by Hollywood Asia on Mar 4, 2008 2:20:57 GMT -5
I was very upset HBK lost to Cena at WM last year.
As for this match, I'm digging the build for it thus far.
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Post by The Funniest Guy in Pants on Mar 4, 2008 4:13:22 GMT -5
as it did the Heartbreak Hag....Shawn Michaels isnt a spring chicken. You know you're old when just wearing tight pants hurts your knees. I mean seriously I love flair. To me hes the all time greatest. Has time passed him by? Of course, He is a legend though. He deserves to go out his own time and his own way. I dont see why everyone says Flair is bland does the same things in the ring. Hell they all do. The quote someone used was "if you've seen one Flair match youve seen them all" That can be said for any wrestler. Its their move set and they are gonna use the same thing over and over. Shawn's knees have nothing to do with age, his knees have bothered him since 1990 in a motorcycle accident. And on top of that accident, Shawn's knees have suffered even more punishment since he's the most diverse wrestler in WWE history. He changes his style using, technical, high-flying, and submission. He also puts his body on the line and reinvents himself in the ring. You actually believe that???
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