Deleted
Joined on: Sept 21, 2024 0:41:26 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2008 4:15:48 GMT -5
Shawn's knees have nothing to do with age, his knees have bothered him since 1990 in a motorcycle accident. And on top of that accident, Shawn's knees have suffered even more punishment since he's the most diverse wrestler in WWE history. He changes his style using, technical, high-flying, and submission. He also puts his body on the line and reinvents himself in the ring. You actually believe that???
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Post by rkolegendkilla on Mar 4, 2008 4:23:16 GMT -5
You're ripping on someone for being past their prime and needs to give it up, with Has-Been Kid in your sig?
The irony is delicious. What does Shawn Michaels have to offer to wrestling now other than embarrassing new wrestling viewers by acting 20 when he is 50?
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Post by The Funniest Guy in Pants on Mar 4, 2008 6:36:31 GMT -5
You actually believe that??? I'm not saying he's bad, but Shawn Michales is no way a diverse wrestler.
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Silent Jay
Main Eventer
Give Scrappy a thread, he'll follow you around the board
Joined on: Nov 27, 2007 2:22:18 GMT -5
Posts: 1,607
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Post by Silent Jay on Mar 4, 2008 6:42:25 GMT -5
People we are missing the point... Flair deserves to go out at the biggest show of the year, and he deserves to retire to whoever he wants. If Flair i.e. God wants to do it this way then more power to him.
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Post by carly1988 on Mar 4, 2008 8:35:37 GMT -5
I think the best part is that everyone is assuming that HBK is gonna beat Flair at Wrestlemania. My money says the next monday at Raw Flair will be in action again. HBK MIGHT be the one that ends Flairs career (only because Sting cant) but it wont be at Mania
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 21, 2024 0:41:26 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2008 9:28:53 GMT -5
Michaels hasnt been worth a crapin years. Flair may not be as good as he used to be, but Id rather see him in a high profile match than watch Michaels do the same craphe does every match.
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Post by BoJack Hogan on Mar 4, 2008 10:13:11 GMT -5
ugh, i cannot believe what i am reading. flair sucks? michaels hasnt been worth a $#!t in years? oy! flair IS one of the all time greats, definitely one of the top 2 of all time, depending on who you argue for. michaels MAY even be in the top ten. nevertheless, the match still has happened a billion times before, and i have zero interest. still, this does nothing to take away from the legacy of either.
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Post by joebaia88 on Mar 4, 2008 11:39:19 GMT -5
Your forgetting the fact that it was Flair who inspired HBK to get into wrestling. He also inspired countless others no doubt, and like I already said, got plenty more others over in the process. As for HBK being a better entertainer, that's a matter of opinion. Michaels is great to watch and can work the face and heel roles equally well, but he's borrowed a ton of stuff from Flair, and he'd be the first person to admit that. So in that respect, Flair really is the better entertainer, because he was flying around with the Horsemen long before Michaels started up DX and began to moon us. There's no denying Hogan helped the business a ton, but let's remember, Vince had originally planned for Kerry Von Erich to play Hogan's role, but due to Kerry's drug problems etc, he didn't get the gig. So Hogan caught a lucky break there because at the time, Kerry was a huge draw down in WCCW and, had he kicked his drug habit, could have definately been the same draw as Hogan. But then you look at how well Hogan did for the business, and then you look at how he pissed all over the end of WrestleMania IX by having to win the title from Yoko after the main event. He then dropped the title back to Yoko at KOTR '93 because he didn't want to put Bret Hart over. Then that's before all the WCW backstage nonsense that he pulled. As long as him and his friends were happy, that's all that mattered to Hogan. He looked out for number 1, and if he was ok, who the cared about the rest of the promotion? Remember also, Hogan was supposed to lose to HBK in a rematch of their Summerslam match at Unforgiven 2005, but due to that convenient 'creative control' clause in his contract, he decided against putting Michaels over, despite the fact a defeat would have done nothing to hurt his legacy. So, whilst Hogan's drawing power and influence is unquestionable, his personality and attitude, in my opinion, sour a lot of the good work he and Vince did together. I believe had Flair had the same PR machine as Hogan behind him, he would have been an equal success. I am not talking about towards the end of his bitter career. I am talking about 1984-1990. Also you never said a thing about the Bret Hart being a better wrestler, and Austin doing more for the business. I somewhat agree with the HBK being like Flair but not all the way since I don't ever remember seeing Flair do moonsaults and jumping off the top rope like HBK. I didn't mean every aspect of Michaels was the same as Flair. But you can see the similarities. The arrogance, the swagger, the heel stable behind him, both guys aren't exactly 'big' guys, both bleed a lot and do their best to make their opponent look like a million dollars, and also, how about the irish whip into the turnbuckle/flip upside down move? Where did HBK learn that from? He's admitted himself how much he learned from watching Ric Flair. Had it not been for Flair, Michaels wouldn't be the same wrestler as he turned out to be. As for Hart being the better wrestler, that's completely subjective, and to be fair, I love watching Bret Hart wrestle. But they are very different workers. Hart was more scientific and move based I'd say. Flair meanwhile, was great technically without having to dig into a deep moveset. He could generate HUGE crowd reactions with a series of chops and punches, something that very few wrestlers in history have been able to do. Both are very adaptable workers and can work well with practically any given opponent. However, whilst in ring work is pretty evenly matched, Flair was the better complete package. I know this isn't the comparison we're making between the 2, but when you take that into account, Flair gets the nod from me. He generated that charisma and arrogance into his matches and they added to any match he was having. As for Austin doing more for the business. Well, for the WWF he did, but from WCW's point of view, where Flair was working when Austin came along, do you think they were thrilled about Austin exploding the way he did? Had Flair spent the best part of his career in the WWF rather than the NWA/WCW, he'd have done just as much as Austin I feel. Given the financial backing that Vince could have put behind Flair, he would have been bigger than he was in my opinion, and that's saying something. Look how Hogan took off with the WWF's PR behind him. Austin was the right guy, at the right place, at the right time. He introduced the 'grey area' to wrestling where he was basically a heel who was cheered like a babyface. He represented the working man fighting back against the evil corporation, or 'the man'. I'm a huge Austin mark and have no problem with saying that, in the few short years he was at the top of the wrestling business, he became one of it's most important ever stars. However, that's from one company's point of view. A guy like Austin was disastrous for WCW because he helped kill them in the ratings. However, longevity wise, comparing Austin's importance to Flair's is a bit unfair. Flair has been wrestling for over 30 years and has pulled in sellout crowds all over the place. Austin did it for what? 4 years tops? It's really hard to compare the 2.
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Post by Lennon on Mar 4, 2008 11:47:08 GMT -5
Ugh, some of you are ing stupid. Flair overrated? HA. What a ing joke that is...
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Post by Controversial Maverick PUNK on Mar 4, 2008 12:16:57 GMT -5
I don't think Flair is anywhere close to being one of the best wrestlers of all time - to me, it seems he's been able to get by using his charisma, rather than his ring ability.. like Foley, HHH, The Rock and maybe even Austin.. All of those are not that great in the ring - but they have such a charisma, they're natural entertainers, and people are able to overlook their apparent limited wrestling ability.. Edge and Cena are prime examples - guys who have been able to reach main-event status, due to their personality, rather than ring skills..
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Post by mrchase on Mar 4, 2008 13:15:02 GMT -5
I didn't mean every aspect of Michaels was the same as Flair. But you can see the similarities. The arrogance, the swagger, the heel stable behind him, both guys aren't exactly 'big' guys, both bleed a lot and do their best to make their opponent look like a million dollars, and also, how about the irish whip into the turnbuckle/flip upside down move? Where did HBK learn that from? He's admitted himself how much he learned from watching Ric Flair. Had it not been for Flair, Michaels wouldn't be the same wrestler as he turned out to be. As for Hart being the better wrestler, that's completely subjective, and to be fair, I love watching Bret Hart wrestle. But they are very different workers. Hart was more scientific and move based I'd say. Flair meanwhile, was great technically without having to dig into a deep moveset. He could generate HUGE crowd reactions with a series of chops and punches, something that very few wrestlers in history have been able to do. Both are very adaptable workers and can work well with practically any given opponent. However, whilst in ring work is pretty evenly matched, Flair was the better complete package. I know this isn't the comparison we're making between the 2, but when you take that into account, Flair gets the nod from me. He generated that charisma and arrogance into his matches and they added to any match he was having. As for Austin doing more for the business. Well, for the WWF he did, but from WCW's point of view, where Flair was working when Austin came along, do you think they were thrilled about Austin exploding the way he did? Had Flair spent the best part of his career in the WWF rather than the NWA/WCW, he'd have done just as much as Austin I feel. Given the financial backing that Vince could have put behind Flair, he would have been bigger than he was in my opinion, and that's saying something. Look how Hogan took off with the WWF's PR behind him. Austin was the right guy, at the right place, at the right time. He introduced the 'grey area' to wrestling where he was basically a heel who was cheered like a babyface. He represented the working man fighting back against the evil corporation, or 'the man'. I'm a huge Austin mark and have no problem with saying that, in the few short years he was at the top of the wrestling business, he became one of it's most important ever stars. However, that's from one company's point of view. A guy like Austin was disastrous for WCW because he helped kill them in the ratings. However, longevity wise, comparing Austin's importance to Flair's is a bit unfair. Flair has been wrestling for over 30 years and has pulled in sellout crowds all over the place. Austin did it for what? 4 years tops? It's really hard to compare the 2. Basically, Austin cared the WWF from 1997-2000 on his ing back and beat WCW in the ratings. Sure some things like DX/Taler/Rock helped but it was all Austin. Flair never did anything like that, sure he was 100X the better wrestler but Austin had alot more charisma from the crowd, imho. Flair was also in the right place at the right time. If he started in the 90's it wouldn't have worked so well because that style of wrestling is dead and no one wants to see it again. that style of wrestling is dead? are you freaken kidding me? that style of wrestling is not dead at all & works very wel lto day . this just shows you ignorance to wredtling .HHH wrestles the style every time .all HHH is clone of ric flair & harley race in one.if you think flair did not have alot of charisma from the crowd then you are fool . you never watched flair in 1980's & with the original horsemen. alos if you think austin caried WWF during attitude by himself then you are fool . without his heels there would be no austin . HHH,ROCK,STONE COLD,UNDERTAKER ,& MICK FOLEY CARRIED ATTITIUDE TOGETHER NOT BY THEIRSELF LIKK YOU THINK . IT WAS NOT JUST ONE MAN . IT WAS ALL OF THEM.IF YOU THINK FLAIR DID NOT CARRY THE NWA ALL THRU THE 1980'S THEN YOU ARE FOOL .
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Jason Bourne
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 15, 2002 16:20:48 GMT -5
Posts: 1,451
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Post by Jason Bourne on Mar 4, 2008 13:22:00 GMT -5
I love pointless arguments on WF. Fact is they are both great wrestlers and both past their prime (Flair more than HBK). Flair was going to face somebody and when I look at the roster now, HBK is really the best choice.
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Post by Iron Man on Mar 4, 2008 13:23:22 GMT -5
Basically, Austin cared the WWF from 1997-2000 on his ing back and beat WCW in the ratings. Sure some things like DX/Taler/Rock helped but it was all Austin. Flair never did anything like that, sure he was 100X the better wrestler but Austin had alot more charisma from the crowd, imho. Flair was also in the right place at the right time. If he started in the 90's it wouldn't have worked so well because that style of wrestling is dead and no one wants to see it again. that style of wrestling is dead? are you freaken kidding me? that style of wrestling is not dead at all & works very wel lto day . this just shows you ignorance to wredtling .HHH wrestles the style every time .all HHH is clone of ric flair & harley race in one.if you think flair did not have alot of charisma from the crowd then you are fool . you never watched flair in 1980's & with the original horsemen. alos if you think austin caried WWF during attitude by himself then you are fool . without his heels there would be no austin . HHH,ROCK,STONE COLD,UNDERTAKER ,& MICK FOLEY CARRIED ATTITIUDE TOGETHER NOT BY THEIRSELF LIKK YOU THINK . IT WAS NOT JUST ONE MAN . IT WAS ALL OF THEM.IF YOU THINK FLAIR DID NOT CARRY THE NWA ALL THRU THE 1980'S THEN YOU ARE FOOL . lol, wow. When did I say Flair did not have charisma? You people baffle me tbh. Read my post again numbnuts, I said Austin basically caried the WWF with some help from DX/Taker/Rock. WIthout no Ausitn there would be no DX or Rock. In late 1997, Undertaker was in a fued with Kane, Rock was a mid-card, and Shawn Michaels had an injured back and barley wrestled. Who do you think carried WWF then? And again in 1998, Austin was fighting guys like Kane and Foley, two guys who had there fans but didn't draw anyone. Rock was still mid-card level and Undertaker was still in his fued with Kane Austin did carry the WWF, idiot! If it had not been for Austin, I bet you WCW would still be around today
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Post by The UndyTaker on Mar 4, 2008 13:23:28 GMT -5
as it did the Heartbreak Hag....Shawn Michaels isnt a spring chicken. You know you're old when just wearing tight pants hurts your knees. I mean seriously I love flair. To me hes the all time greatest. Has time passed him by? Of course, He is a legend though. He deserves to go out his own time and his own way. I dont see why everyone says Flair is bland does the same things in the ring. Hell they all do. The quote someone used was "if you've seen one Flair match youve seen them all" That can be said for any wrestler. Its their move set and they are gonna use the same thing over and over. Shawn's knees have nothing to do with age, his knees have bothered him since 1990 in a motorcycle accident. And on top of that accident, Shawn's knees have suffered even more punishment since he's the most diverse wrestler in WWE history. He changes his style using, technical, high-flying, and submission. He also puts his body on the line and reinvents himself in the ring.You made me spit water all over. Thanks for the laugh.
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Post by T R W on Mar 4, 2008 13:31:28 GMT -5
This thread is like one giant ball of intellectually- disabled.
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Post by Controversial Maverick PUNK on Mar 4, 2008 14:21:03 GMT -5
Heaven forbid, anybody say anything negative about the god-like Flair..
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Post by K5 on Mar 4, 2008 22:54:12 GMT -5
I don't think you should really count tag matches. ^ what this man said, and who gives a damn if they've fought before?
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Post by markallenkellner on Mar 4, 2008 22:57:33 GMT -5
mrchase, you are a super special young man. I know you will ace second grade one day: i105.photobucket.com/albums/m239/markallenkellner1/super-intellectually- disabled person.jpg[/IMG] Basically, Austin cared the WWF from 1997-2000 on his ing back and beat WCW in the ratings. Sure some things like DX/Taler/Rock helped but it was all Austin. Flair never did anything like that, sure he was 100X the better wrestler but Austin had alot more charisma from the crowd, imho. Flair was also in the right place at the right time. If he started in the 90's it wouldn't have worked so well because that style of wrestling is dead and no one wants to see it again. that style of wrestling is dead? are you freaken kidding me? that style of wrestling is not dead at all & works very wel lto day . this just shows you ignorance to wredtling .HHH wrestles the style every time .all HHH is clone of ric flair & harley race in one.if you think flair did not have alot of charisma from the crowd then you are fool . you never watched flair in 1980's & with the original horsemen. alos if you think austin caried WWF during attitude by himself then you are fool . without his heels there would be no austin . HHH,ROCK,STONE COLD,UNDERTAKER ,& MICK FOLEY CARRIED ATTITIUDE TOGETHER NOT BY THEIRSELF LIKK YOU THINK . IT WAS NOT JUST ONE MAN . IT WAS ALL OF THEM.IF YOU THINK FLAIR DID NOT CARRY THE NWA ALL THRU THE 1980'S THEN YOU ARE FOOL .
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Post by T R W on Mar 4, 2008 22:57:50 GMT -5
Heaven forbid, anybody say anything negative about the god-like Flair.. Exactly, it should be forbidden.
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Post by The Dude on Mar 4, 2008 23:05:36 GMT -5
That was like deja vu, about 7 times over! same here.
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