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Post by joebaia88 on Mar 4, 2008 23:14:14 GMT -5
that style of wrestling is dead? are you freaken kidding me? that style of wrestling is not dead at all & works very wel lto day . this just shows you ignorance to wredtling .HHH wrestles the style every time .all HHH is clone of ric flair & harley race in one.if you think flair did not have alot of charisma from the crowd then you are fool . you never watched flair in 1980's & with the original horsemen. alos if you think austin caried WWF during attitude by himself then you are fool . without his heels there would be no austin . HHH,ROCK,STONE COLD,UNDERTAKER ,& MICK FOLEY CARRIED ATTITIUDE TOGETHER NOT BY THEIRSELF LIKK YOU THINK . IT WAS NOT JUST ONE MAN . IT WAS ALL OF THEM.IF YOU THINK FLAIR DID NOT CARRY THE NWA ALL THRU THE 1980'S THEN YOU ARE FOOL . lol, wow. When did I say Flair did not have charisma? You people baffle me tbh. Read my post again numbnuts, I said Austin basically caried the WWF with some help from DX/Taker/Rock. WIthout no Ausitn there would be no DX or Rock. In late 1997, Undertaker was in a fued with Kane, Rock was a mid-card, and Shawn Michaels had an injured back and barley wrestled. Who do you think carried WWF then? And again in 1998, Austin was fighting guys like Kane and Foley, two guys who had there fans but didn't draw anyone. Rock was still mid-card level and Undertaker was still in his fued with Kane Austin did carry the WWF, idiot! If it had not been for Austin, I bet you WCW would still be around today Without Austin there would be no DX or Rock? You do know that DX was started in '97 when Shawn was in a main event feud with 'Taker don't you? Therefore they were higher up the card than Austin at that point. So that renders that part of your argument useless. And HBK was carrying a back injury and barely wrestled in late '97? Have you not seen the HIAC match with Taker then? Or the Survivor Series match with Bret? He injured his back at the Rumble '98 in the casket match with Taker. The Undertaker helped carry the WWF through one of it's toughest periods in the mid 90's and when Austin began to come onto the main event scene, Taker had already been there for years. Especially in '97 when he was champ from WM 13 to SummerSlam '97. Taker was then main eventing against Michaels before his big first feud with Kane, which at the time, was a very big deal. Austin did a TON to help the WWF, but it wasn't just him with a bit of help from DX, Taker and The Rock. They did a lot more than just help a bit. Taker had been with the company for 7 years by the time the attitude era rolled around and had always been incredibly over. Did his countless number of fans just forget that when Austin appeared on the scene? Now look at Flair in NWA. The best NWA stuff from the 80's has Flair's name all over it. Flair/Race, Flair/Windham, Flair/Rhodes, Flair/Funk, Flair/Steamboat, Flair/Sting. Not to mention the stuff him and The Horsemen did with the likes of the Road Warriors, Magnum TA, The Rock 'N Roll Express, Nikita Koloff, Ronnie Garvin, The Steiners and so on and so on. Without Flair, there was no Horsemen, without the Horsemen, there wouldn't have been much of an NWA in the 80's. So therefore, who knows if the NWA would have been able to do enough business to stay afloat and lead into WCW being formed. That's the same WCW where a certain Steve Austin got his start. Think about that. |
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Post by lugerfan1 on Mar 5, 2008 0:26:55 GMT -5
I've compiled many matches between the two. Flair and Michaels have wrestled each other dozens of times, this is getting ridiculous. If you really think Flair sucks you don't deserve to watch wrestling, period. |
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The Stranger
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jul 21, 2007 1:09:47 GMT -5
Posts: 2,200
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Post by The Stranger on Mar 5, 2008 1:33:25 GMT -5
You're ripping on someone for being past their prime and needs to give it up, with Has-Been Kid in your sig? The irony is delicious. What does Shawn Michaels have to offer to wrestling now other than embarrassing new wrestling viewers by acting 20 when he is 50? Hold it. Firstly, Shawn is in his early 40's, which is still a pretty young age compared to Ric Flair. I don't hate Flair, he was one of the best ever, but for you to say Shawn has nothing to offer to current wrestling is simply ludicrous. Shawn is one of, if not, the best wrestlers Vince has, and ever will get. No one has been more entertaining or better in the ring than Shawn, 29 or 42 years of age -- he's still got it, as far as I'm concerned. Half of the people I know tune in to RAW just to see what Shawn is up to, and I know that's damn well why I watch WWE these days. Has Been Kid? Oh that's cute, what next, Half Bald Kid? LOL /rant over |
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Post by Iron Man on Mar 5, 2008 1:40:27 GMT -5
lol, wow. When did I say Flair did not have charisma? You people baffle me tbh. Read my post again numbnuts, I said Austin basically caried the WWF with some help from DX/Taker/Rock. WIthout no Ausitn there would be no DX or Rock. In late 1997, Undertaker was in a fued with Kane, Rock was a mid-card, and Shawn Michaels had an injured back and barley wrestled. Who do you think carried WWF then? And again in 1998, Austin was fighting guys like Kane and Foley, two guys who had there fans but didn't draw anyone. Rock was still mid-card level and Undertaker was still in his fued with Kane Austin did carry the WWF, idiot! If it had not been for Austin, I bet you WCW would still be around today Without Austin there would be no DX or Rock? You do know that DX was started in '97 when Shawn was in a main event feud with 'Taker don't you? Therefore they were higher up the card than Austin at that point. So that renders that part of your argument useless. And HBK was carrying a back injury and barely wrestled in late '97? Have you not seen the HIAC match with Taker then? Or the Survivor Series match with Bret? He injured his back at the Rumble '98 in the casket match with Taker. The Undertaker helped carry the WWF through one of it's toughest periods in the mid 90's and when Austin began to come onto the main event scene, Taker had already been there for years. Especially in '97 when he was champ from WM 13 to SummerSlam '97. Taker was then main eventing against Michaels before his big first feud with Kane, which at the time, was a very big deal. Austin did a TON to help the WWF, but it wasn't just him with a bit of help from DX, Taker and The Rock. They did a lot more than just help a bit. Taker had been with the company for 7 years by the time the attitude era rolled around and had always been incredibly over. Did his countless number of fans just forget that when Austin appeared on the scene? Now look at Flair in NWA. The best NWA stuff from the 80's has Flair's name all over it. Flair/Race, Flair/Windham, Flair/Rhodes, Flair/Funk, Flair/Steamboat, Flair/Sting. Not to mention the stuff him and The Horsemen did with the likes of the Road Warriors, Magnum TA, The Rock 'N Roll Express, Nikita Koloff, Ronnie Garvin, The Steiners and so on and so on. Without Flair, there was no Horsemen, without the Horsemen, there wouldn't have been much of an NWA in the 80's. So therefore, who knows if the NWA would have been able to do enough business to stay afloat and lead into WCW being formed. That's the same WCW where a certain Steve Austin got his start. Think about that. And you do know that Shawn sustained a back injury with his matches with Undertaker at Ground Zero and Bad Blood don't you. Undertaker was over with the crowd but couldn't draw big at the time. Before Austin was a huge star, Taker and HBK were the big stars and they were getting killed in the ratings. Austin comes in, ratings sky rocket. Say what you want, but I have my opinon and it won't change tbh. I am not saying DX/Rock/Taker did nothing, I am just saying Austin did alot more then all of them, basically carying the WWF on his back. |
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Post by Controversial Maverick PUNK on Mar 5, 2008 1:44:29 GMT -5
Heaven forbid, anybody say anything negative about the god-like Flair.. Exactly, it should be forbidden. I was being sarcastic.. |
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Master Lewpac
POSSIBLE BAD TRADER
Detroit plays dirty.
Joined on: Apr 12, 2007 1:47:12 GMT -5
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Post by Master Lewpac on Mar 5, 2008 2:03:22 GMT -5
Anyone who says Ric Flair sucks needs pistol whipping. Words fail me, I can only hope it was said in jest, but even then, it should still be an arrestable offense, carrying at least 10 years in jail being forced to watch Naitch's brilliance over and over on a continuous loop until you realise the error of your ways. If it wasn't for Ric Flair, I wouldn't like to guess how many wrestlers would have chosen different career paths. Excellently put. |
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Post by joebaia88 on Mar 5, 2008 2:14:12 GMT -5
Without Austin there would be no DX or Rock? You do know that DX was started in '97 when Shawn was in a main event feud with 'Taker don't you? Therefore they were higher up the card than Austin at that point. So that renders that part of your argument useless. And HBK was carrying a back injury and barely wrestled in late '97? Have you not seen the HIAC match with Taker then? Or the Survivor Series match with Bret? He injured his back at the Rumble '98 in the casket match with Taker. The Undertaker helped carry the WWF through one of it's toughest periods in the mid 90's and when Austin began to come onto the main event scene, Taker had already been there for years. Especially in '97 when he was champ from WM 13 to SummerSlam '97. Taker was then main eventing against Michaels before his big first feud with Kane, which at the time, was a very big deal. Austin did a TON to help the WWF, but it wasn't just him with a bit of help from DX, Taker and The Rock. They did a lot more than just help a bit. Taker had been with the company for 7 years by the time the attitude era rolled around and had always been incredibly over. Did his countless number of fans just forget that when Austin appeared on the scene? Now look at Flair in NWA. The best NWA stuff from the 80's has Flair's name all over it. Flair/Race, Flair/Windham, Flair/Rhodes, Flair/Funk, Flair/Steamboat, Flair/Sting. Not to mention the stuff him and The Horsemen did with the likes of the Road Warriors, Magnum TA, The Rock 'N Roll Express, Nikita Koloff, Ronnie Garvin, The Steiners and so on and so on. Without Flair, there was no Horsemen, without the Horsemen, there wouldn't have been much of an NWA in the 80's. So therefore, who knows if the NWA would have been able to do enough business to stay afloat and lead into WCW being formed. That's the same WCW where a certain Steve Austin got his start. Think about that. And you do know that Shawn sustained a back injury with his matches with Undertaker at Ground Zero and Bad Blood don't you. Undertaker was over with the crowd but couldn't draw big at the time. Before Austin was a huge star, Taker and HBK were the big stars and they were getting killed in the ratings. Austin comes in, ratings sky rocket. Say what you want, but I have my opinon and it won't change tbh. I am not saying DX/Rock/Taker did nothing, I am just saying Austin did alot more then all of them, basically carying the WWF on his back. Nice to see you conveniently sidestep my remarks about Flair. Also, as for ratings skyrocketing when Austin came in, the ratings went back and forth between WWF and WCW throughout almost all of '98. I think WCW last won a Monday night ratings war at the end of October '98. By that time The Rock had come into his own and was a month away from turning heel and becoming The Corporate champ and Austin's nemesis for the next few months. Not too long after HHH also turned heel remember and quickly became hugely over as the company's top heel. The point I'm making is that Austin was a huge draw as you say, but it wasn't as if as soon as he came in, the WWF killed WCW and that was that. It took the best part of a year for the WWF to finally take a proper stranglehold in the ratings war. And when they did, they had more than just Austin. They had Foley and The Rock feuding over the Title in a memorable feud. There was DX vs The Corporation as well. So it wasn't as if Austin was alone, his supporting cast was pretty amazing too. So to say he carried the WWF on it's back is a pretty big statement. I know a lot of people who would agree with you, but I personally think it does a great disservice to the likes of Taker, Rock, Foley, HHH etc. But remember, your original argument was that Austin was more important to wrestling than Flair, not more important to the WWF. And if you look at my argument FOR Flair, you'll see that he was the main reason for the success of the NWA in the 80's. Not just for a couple of years, but for almost an entire decade. Had the NWA not had Flair in the 80's and everything that went with him, who knows what would have happened to them,and more importantly, wrestling as a whole. |
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Post by miserere on Mar 5, 2008 2:16:44 GMT -5
HBK? Ric Flair? Screw those has-beens, it's all about future Hall-of-Famers CM Punk and MVP and Deuce and Domino. Real sure-fire talent right there. Big draws, too.
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Post by Quanthor on Mar 5, 2008 2:18:33 GMT -5
Even though Flair is nothing like he use to be, I'm still very much looking forward to this match.
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Post by Iron Man on Mar 5, 2008 2:29:17 GMT -5
And you do know that Shawn sustained a back injury with his matches with Undertaker at Ground Zero and Bad Blood don't you. Undertaker was over with the crowd but couldn't draw big at the time. Before Austin was a huge star, Taker and HBK were the big stars and they were getting killed in the ratings. Austin comes in, ratings sky rocket. Say what you want, but I have my opinon and it won't change tbh. I am not saying DX/Rock/Taker did nothing, I am just saying Austin did alot more then all of them, basically carying the WWF on his back. Nice to see you conveniently sidestep my remarks about Flair. Also, as for ratings skyrocketing when Austin came in, the ratings went back and forth between WWF and WCW throughout almost all of '98. I think WCW last won a Monday night ratings war at the end of October '98. By that time The Rock had come into his own and was a month away from turning heel and becoming The Corporate champ and Austin's nemesis for the next few months. Not too long after HHH also turned heel remember and quickly became hugely over as the company's top heel. The point I'm making is that Austin was a huge draw as you say, but it wasn't as if as soon as he came in, the WWF killed WCW and that was that. It took the best part of a year for the WWF to finally take a proper stranglehold in the ratings war. And when they did, they had more than just Austin. They had Foley and The Rock feuding over the Title in a memorable feud. There was DX vs The Corporation as well. So it wasn't as if Austin was alone, his supporting cast was pretty amazing too. So to say he carried the WWF on it's back is a pretty big statement. I know a lot of people who would agree with you, but I personally think it does a great disservice to the likes of Taker, Rock, Foley, HHH etc. But remember, your original argument was that Austin was more important to wrestling than Flair, not more important to the WWF. And if you look at my argument FOR Flair, you'll see that he was the main reason for the success of the NWA in the 80's. Not just for a couple of years, but for almost an entire decade. Had the NWA not had Flair in the 80's and everything that went with him, who knows what would have happened to them,and more importantly, wrestling as a whole. Austin had done more for the business then Flair. I think you just like arguing with me if you disagree. I am in no way a huge Austin mark but I would say the same for Hogan. Hogan changed this business and has done more then Flair and Austin ever did. But anyway, as for the WCW/WWF War, I and alot of people I know always thought the WWF was better in 1997-1998 and it didn't show in the ratings because alot of people still clutched onto the WCW and never really gave the 'F a chance. Flair had alot of memorable matches, no doubt. He was charasmatic, he could talk. But Austin drew huge ratings in, Austin made a crapload of money, Austin had as much, if not more charisma then Flair. Austin would always have classic brawls with Undertaker/Rock/Foley/Kane/McMahon/Helmsley/Hart ect. Ok, maybe the whole Austin carrying WWF by his back was a bit too much of an overstatement, but while FLair (even though he was aging) was still good in the 90's in WCW, he was having the spotlight, everyone turned the channell and wanted to watch a guy like Austin. |
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Post by joebaia88 on Mar 5, 2008 2:40:00 GMT -5
Nice to see you conveniently sidestep my remarks about Flair. Also, as for ratings skyrocketing when Austin came in, the ratings went back and forth between WWF and WCW throughout almost all of '98. I think WCW last won a Monday night ratings war at the end of October '98. By that time The Rock had come into his own and was a month away from turning heel and becoming The Corporate champ and Austin's nemesis for the next few months. Not too long after HHH also turned heel remember and quickly became hugely over as the company's top heel. The point I'm making is that Austin was a huge draw as you say, but it wasn't as if as soon as he came in, the WWF killed WCW and that was that. It took the best part of a year for the WWF to finally take a proper stranglehold in the ratings war. And when they did, they had more than just Austin. They had Foley and The Rock feuding over the Title in a memorable feud. There was DX vs The Corporation as well. So it wasn't as if Austin was alone, his supporting cast was pretty amazing too. So to say he carried the WWF on it's back is a pretty big statement. I know a lot of people who would agree with you, but I personally think it does a great disservice to the likes of Taker, Rock, Foley, HHH etc. But remember, your original argument was that Austin was more important to wrestling than Flair, not more important to the WWF. And if you look at my argument FOR Flair, you'll see that he was the main reason for the success of the NWA in the 80's. Not just for a couple of years, but for almost an entire decade. Had the NWA not had Flair in the 80's and everything that went with him, who knows what would have happened to them,and more importantly, wrestling as a whole. Austin had done more for the business then Flair. I think you just like arguing with me if you disagree. I am in no way a huge Austin mark but I would say the same for Hogan. Hogan changed this business and has done more then Flair and Austin ever did. But anyway, as for the WCW/WWF War, I and alot of people I know always thought the WWF was better in 1997-1998 and it didn't show in the ratings because alot of people still clutched onto the WCW and never really gave the 'F a chance. Flair had alot of memorable matches, no doubt. He was charasmatic, he could talk. But Austin drew huge ratings in, Austin made a **** load of money, Austin had as much, if not more charisma then Flair. Austin would always have classic brawls with Undertaker/Rock/Foley/Kane/McMahon/Helmsley/Hart ect. Ok, maybe the whole Austin carrying WWF by his back was a bit too much of an overstatement, but while FLair (even though he was aging) was still good in the 90's in WCW, he was having the spotlight, everyone turned the channell and wanted to watch a guy like Austin. I was one of those wrestling fans who preferred the WWF's product to WCW's in 97-98. However, it wasn't Flair hogging the spotlight, it was the NwO, namely, Hogan and his buddies. Flair kept the NWA going in the 80's and into the 90's, then Hogan, Savage, Nash, Hall etc jumped ship from the F and could barely have given less of a crapabout WCW surviving once they had their creative freedom, health insurance and God knows how many other perks written into their contracts. People tuned out from WCW to WWF because, well, the product WAS better and also because the NwO angle just became repetitive and boring. It wasn't because of Flair. As far as I know, the NWA wasn't hugely profitable, so Flair really helped keep them afloat during the 80's, so say Flair hadn't been around to feud with the likes of Race, Steamboat, Funk etc, what would have happened? Sure, there was still a ridiculously strong roster of workers there, but without your top draw and everything that came with him (the Horsemen) how could the NWA have coped? WCW may never have been born and therefore the WWF would have had no major competition, therefore, who knows if Austin would have ever come along, and if he had done, would he have been as effective or revolutionary? Because let's face it, without the competition, he wouldn't have been neccessary for a ratings war. |
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Post by mrchase on Mar 5, 2008 5:30:29 GMT -5
[/IMG] that style of wrestling is dead? are you freaken kidding me? that style of wrestling is not dead at all & works very wel lto day . this just shows you ignorance to wredtling .HHH wrestles the style every time .all HHH is clone of ric flair & harley race in one.if you think flair did not have alot of charisma from the crowd then you are fool . you never watched flair in 1980's & with the original horsemen. alos if you think austin caried WWF during attitude by himself then you are fool . without his heels there would be no austin . HHH,ROCK,STONE COLD,UNDERTAKER ,& MICK FOLEY CARRIED ATTITIUDE TOGETHER NOT BY THEIRSELF LIKK YOU THINK . IT WAS NOT JUST ONE MAN . IT WAS ALL OF THEM.IF YOU THINK FLAIR DID NOT CARRY THE NWA ALL THRU THE 1980'S THEN YOU ARE FOOL . screw your racist bigot punk ass & your bigot ass mom i am not intellectually- disabled like your closeminded bigot canadian ass. i am smarter then you will ever be & more of man then you wil ever be. i went to same college as boby lashley, missouri valley & i am not intellectually- disabled person like you. grow up little boy .only people who have no life , nerds , or little punk ass kids who have not grown up make fun of people for grammaro n the internet. when it really does not matter about grammar . if it does then you are loser . grow up you closeminded bigot canadian piece of trash. if you can't understand whati right then go back to school loser. |
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Post by K5 on Mar 5, 2008 7:54:48 GMT -5
screw your racist bigot punk ass & your bigot ass mom i am not intellectually- disabled like your closeminded bigot canadian ass. i am smarter then you will ever be & more of man then you wil ever be. i went to same college as boby lashley, missouri valley & i am not intellectually- disabled person like you. grow up little boy .only people who have no life , nerds , or little punk ass kids who have not grown up make fun of people for grammaro n the internet. when it really does not matter about grammar . if it does then you are loser . grow up you closeminded bigot canadian piece of trash. if you can't understand whati right then go back to school loser. you wanna  off with the canada remarks? |
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Post by WalterF on Mar 5, 2008 8:51:49 GMT -5
I have to admit as a top level HBK mark I do kind of wish we'd see HBK wrestle someone younger so that the match could go longer and perhaps be a little better, but I know the match will still rock because HBK can make any situation into a 5 star bout. I am also a really huge Ric Flair mark and some of my favorte wrestler EVER is his 88-89 bouts, but I still claim he should have retired after losing to Taker at WM in 02.
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craigisnutter
Main Eventer
..That's what she said!
Joined on: Sept 6, 2006 17:25:27 GMT -5
Posts: 1,313
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Post by craigisnutter on Mar 5, 2008 9:18:19 GMT -5
personally, i am really looking forward to the match.
Mania does bring the best out of guys, it is the big show, it is the 4 hour spectacular and that still includes the veterans.
I really wouldn't like to predict this as well. I honestly believe this could go either way. Granted flair does have to retire soon, but will he do it at Mania, or would that be too obvious?
I also can't believe that anyone can call either Flair or HBK crap or say they don't deserve all the acalade they get. Flair was and in my mind forever will be 1 hell of a performer and more importantly wrestler. HBK helped to revolutionise wrestling and still oozes charisma and the ability to hold a crowed in his hand from start to finish.
They are both phenominal talents and this argument, to me, is pointless.
If you are trying to chose the better of the two......as hard a choice as it is, for me it's Flair, purely because of how much he did, how much he accomplished and how he rose through a cloud of nationwide and worldwide territories, with a character (something still not truely mastered in his day) to become a household name.
But that is just my opinion...
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Post by mickeyj1130 on Mar 5, 2008 9:40:28 GMT -5
IMO it is truly embarassing watching Ric Flair wrestle. He should have retired years ago. It's time to call it a day Ric.
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Guest
Main Eventer
WWE FAN!
Joined on: Nov 11, 2003 20:47:20 GMT -5
Posts: 1,937
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Post by Guest on Mar 5, 2008 11:08:24 GMT -5
I find it funny how you guys sit back behind your computer screen and talk about how flair and hbk suck when they have done nothing but WRESTLE for the 20 years putting their lives on the line each time and you guys have gonads to say they suck , when I'm pretty sure most of you have never even stepped foot in a ring. You guys show nothing but ignorance and constantly bash the product when you have guys busting there ass to give us a something to watch. Who in the hell has HBK put over since 02? HBK has had to be at the top since returning the entire time. His ego is too big to be jobbing out to anyone younger. Ok HBK has put over Randy Orton Batista Chris Benoit Edge Kurt Angle and many others just look at HBKs losses at PPv's |
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Post by Iron Man on Mar 5, 2008 11:09:50 GMT -5
I find it funny how you guys sit back behind your computer screen and talk about how flair and hbk suck when they have done nothing but WRESTLE for the 20 years putting their lives on the line each time and you guys have gonads to say they suck , when I'm pretty sure most of you have never even stepped foot in a ring. You guys show nothing but ignorance and constantly bash the product when you have guys busting there ass to give us a something to watch. Who in the hell has HBK put over since 02? HBK has had to be at the top since returning the entire time. His ego is too big to be jobbing out to anyone younger. Ok HBK has put over Randy Orton Batista Chris Benoit Edge Kurt Angle and many others just look at HBKs losses at PPv's He even had a big time fued with Chris Masters that made him a mid-card/main event. He also put over Kennedy, but Kennedy lost to him twice. |
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Post by S on Mar 5, 2008 11:16:19 GMT -5
My god... would you people stop sucking Flairs and HBK's dick...
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Post by Adam on Mar 5, 2008 12:28:02 GMT -5
screw your racist bigot punk ass & your bigot ass mom i am not intellectually- disabled like your closeminded bigot canadian ass. i am smarter then you will ever be & more of man then you wil ever be. i went to same college as boby lashley, missouri valley & i am not intellectually- disabled person like you. grow up little boy .only people who have no life , nerds , or little punk ass kids who have not grown up make fun of people for grammaro n the internet. when it really does not matter about grammar . if it does then you are loser . grow up you closeminded bigot canadian piece of trash. if you can't understand whati right then go back to school loser. You can't EVER type a coherent sentence, yet we're supposed to believe that you went to college? You have no room to tell anyone of us to grow up, especially someone that resorts to childish name calling as well. As for this subject. I'm not too excited about this match. Don't get me wrong, I think Flair deserves as much as respect as people give him (if not more), but he's become just so painful to watch. I mean sure this is a Wrestlemania type match up, but I'm not expecting much of a great match. |
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