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Post by Mr. Old School™ on Sept 3, 2008 15:40:40 GMT -5
Brock in the only big money heavyweight they can match with Randy who isn't named Fedor  This isn't about if Brock should get a title match or not, it's about making money, which UFC will do with this fight. Oh, no question about it. Dana White and the UFC are very smart making this fight. They will make LOADS of money off this PPV. And you've got to remember, Randy Couture won't be fighting forever, so maybe Dana White wants to match up Couture with as many big name guys and make as much money as he can, while he can. |
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Post by axemurderer on Sept 3, 2008 15:43:35 GMT -5
Brock in the only big money heavyweight they can match with Randy who isn't named Fedor This isn't about if Brock should get a title match or not, it's about making money, which UFC will do with this fight. Oh, no question about it. Dana White and the UFC are very smart making this fight. They will make LOADS of money off this PPV. . thats the only reason this fight was made..for the money.. You have NO problems with Frank Mir getting a title shot, even though he beat Antoni Hardonk and Brock Lesnar. ... I told you I didnt care that Mir is getting a title shot cause an "interim" title to me is a god damn JOKE. if he got a shot against Randy..he would deserve it more than Lesnar..cause HE BEAT LESNAR...that simple. Do I think Brock looked impressive in his victory over Herring? Nope. Not at all. . so it looks like im not the only one who thinks Brock was not impressive in his win..why havent you JUMPED DOWN HIS THROAT like you did mine Mr Reyes ?? cause he knows people ?? is that why...I say it and immediately "my crediblility is lost"..you are a fool |
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on Sept 3, 2008 15:53:10 GMT -5
What irritates me the most about the whole "Lesnar doesn't deserve to fight Couture" argument is that if Couture beats Brock, all these people will use that as proof that Lesnar is a joke... as if every other heavyweight on the planet wouldn't have trouble beating Couture, too.
It's also baffling that people don't think making money is a good enough excuse to make a fight. You do realize the UFC is not a charity, right? You do understand that if the UFC puts a bunch of great fighters with no marketability in title fights, one right after the other, while Lesnar fights scrubs for another three years... nobody will care about the title, the UFC, OR Lesnar anymore?
Then the UFC loses money, which causes fan interest to drop, which causes fighters to make less, which causes a lot of great fighters to quit the business to take other jobs. And you're looking for a reason why the UFC chooses a big money fight over an experienced but boring challenger?
There's your answer: UFC is a business, and as such, they have a responsibility to keep their company as strong as possible. They owe it to themselves, their employees, and their fighters. Because if the UFC weakens, the trickle-down will affect every single one of those people, one way or another. If the UFC -- as a business -- sees a big-money fight like Couture vs. Lesnar, and both fighters agree to it, and instead they pass on the profit just because a guy like Werdum has more experience than Lesnar... then frankly, they're a negligent business and they've done wrong by everyone who works for them.
The money is there. The fighters agreed. Plenty of fans want to see it (and if you honestly don't believe that, I don't know what else to tell you). Nogueira and Mir are both occupied until their own fight is over with. The path could not be clearer, nor the reasons better, for the UFC to make Couture vs. Lesnar happen.
The crime isn't that the UFC made this title fight. The crime would have been if they DIDN'T.
And if you still don't see the value in making a big-money fight, then I ask you to go apply for a promoter's license and run an MMA group strictly giving title shots by experience and paying no attention to name recognition or what the fans prefer. I give you two or three shows, tops, before you're bankrupt.
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Post by moogie101 on Sept 3, 2008 16:00:32 GMT -5
First off this bizarre arguemewnt about whether Heath Herring was a quality fighter.
If you are arguing this then you know nothing about MMA before TUF.
He won World Vale Tudo Championships 8 & 9, thats tournament wins where he beat three guys in old school rules.
Then in Pride he beat Enson Inoue, Tom Freaking Erikson which was the impressive Big Cat's first ever loss in MMA, Mark Kerr & Vovchanchyn both of whom were at various times considered the best MMA fighters.
His first loss to Nog was for the first ever Pride Title, he was considered good enough to be given the shot and gave Nog a hell of a fight.
Yeah his career has floundered a bit since then but still a very experienced tough guy. I personally thought Lesnar was going to lose.
As for the title shot, in my mind only Werdum is being screwed & that is just down to him being not very marketable. If I owned Zuffa I'd do the exact same thing
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DWright
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Post by DWright on Sept 3, 2008 16:02:38 GMT -5
No, it's because he and I have actually talked to him about in the past (and he doesn't act like a 6 year old in doing so) and I actually respect his opinion. He actually presents points as to why he thinks things. He just doesn't say "I HATE HIM ROOOAR IDIOTS!" He actually presented why he feels Brock didn't impress him. Then other people presented why he DID impress them, and he respected it, instead of throwing multiple temper tantrums and making stuff up...
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Post by Graze on Sept 3, 2008 16:17:01 GMT -5
What irritates me the most about the whole "Lesnar doesn't deserve to fight Couture" argument is that if Couture beats Brock, all these people will use that as proof that Lesnar is a joke... as if every other heavyweight on the planet wouldn't have trouble beating Couture, too. It's also baffling that people don't think making money is a good enough excuse to make a fight. You do realize the UFC is not a charity, right? You do understand that if the UFC puts a bunch of great fighters with no marketability in title fights, one right after the other, while Lesnar fights scrubs for another three years... nobody will care about the title, the UFC, OR Lesnar anymore? Then the UFC loses money, which causes fan interest to drop, which causes fighters to make less, which causes a lot of great fighters to quit the business to take other jobs. And you're looking for a reason why the UFC chooses a big money fight over an experienced but boring challenger? There's your answer: UFC is a business, and as such, they have a responsibility to keep their company as strong as possible. They owe it to themselves, their employees, and their fighters. Because if the UFC weakens, the trickle-down will affect every single one of those people, one way or another. If the UFC -- as a business -- sees a big-money fight like Couture vs. Lesnar, and both fighters agree to it, and instead they pass on the profit just because a guy like Werdum has more experience than Lesnar... then frankly, they're a negligent business and they've done wrong by everyone who works for them. The money is there. The fighters agreed. Plenty of fans want to see it (and if you honestly don't believe that, I don't know what else to tell you). Nogueira and Mir are both occupied until their own fight is over with. The path could not be clearer, nor the reasons better, for the UFC to make Couture vs. Lesnar happen. The crime isn't that the UFC made this title fight. The crime would have been if they DIDN'T. And if you still don't see the value in making a big-money fight, then I ask you to go apply for a promoter's license and run an MMA group strictly giving title shots by experience and paying no attention to name recognition or what the fans prefer. I give you two or three shows, tops, before you're bankrupt. I totally argee with you. This is a "money fight" which is why it's happening. Looking at the heavyweights in the UFC, it's pretty much the only "holy crap:o !" fight they can put together with their heavyweights |
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DWright
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Post by DWright on Sept 3, 2008 16:17:56 GMT -5
What irritates me the most about the whole "Lesnar doesn't deserve to fight Couture" argument is that if Couture beats Brock, all these people will use that as proof that Lesnar is a joke... as if every other heavyweight on the planet wouldn't have trouble beating Couture, too. It's also baffling that people don't think making money is a good enough excuse to make a fight. You do realize the UFC is not a charity, right? You do understand that if the UFC puts a bunch of great fighters with no marketability in title fights, one right after the other, while Lesnar fights scrubs for another three years... nobody will care about the title, the UFC, OR Lesnar anymore? Then the UFC loses money, which causes fan interest to drop, which causes fighters to make less, which causes a lot of great fighters to quit the business to take other jobs. And you're looking for a reason why the UFC chooses a big money fight over an experienced but boring challenger? There's your answer: UFC is a business, and as such, they have a responsibility to keep their company as strong as possible. They owe it to themselves, their employees, and their fighters. Because if the UFC weakens, the trickle-down will affect every single one of those people, one way or another. If the UFC -- as a business -- sees a big-money fight like Couture vs. Lesnar, and both fighters agree to it, and instead they pass on the profit just because a guy like Werdum has more experience than Lesnar... then frankly, they're a negligent business and they've done wrong by everyone who works for them. The money is there. The fighters agreed. Plenty of fans want to see it (and if you honestly don't believe that, I don't know what else to tell you). Nogueira and Mir are both occupied until their own fight is over with. The path could not be clearer, nor the reasons better, for the UFC to make Couture vs. Lesnar happen. The crime isn't that the UFC made this title fight. The crime would have been if they DIDN'T. And if you still don't see the value in making a big-money fight, then I ask you to go apply for a promoter's license and run an MMA group strictly giving title shots by experience and paying no attention to name recognition or what the fans prefer. I give you two or three shows, tops, before you're bankrupt. I totally argee with you. This is a "money fight" which is why it's happening. Looking at the heavyweights in the UFC, it's pretty much the only "holy ****  !" fight they can put together with their heavyweights It's the only fight, period, they can make. |
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Post by axemurderer on Sept 3, 2008 16:22:19 GMT -5
No, it's because he and I have actually talked to him about in the past (and he doesn't act like a 6 year old in doing so) and I actually respect his opinion. He actually presents points as to why he thinks things. He just doesn't say "I HATE HIM ROOOAR IDIOTS!" He actually presented why he feels Brock didn't impress him. Then other people presented why he DID impress them, and he respected it, instead of throwing multiple temper tantrums and making stuff up... (name-calling removed by mod... keep it civil, guys)..this whole thing started because I said Brock was completely not impressive in his win against Herring..I gave my reasons why and you jumped all over it...straight dogged me cause my opinion..and now this guy has the same opnion and his word is gold to you ?? and im acting like the 6 yr old ?? please bro |
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Post by Patrick Bateman (original) on Sept 3, 2008 16:24:27 GMT -5
The UFC HAD to put this fight on now. There is so much money to be made. That had they waited they would of had the "you snooze you loose" effect. Randy has 3 fights left in his contract. He is going to retire when they are up. Lesnar has 1 fight left in his UFC contract with the option of 2 more. If they would of waited on this cash cow then they would of waited to long. Since Randy's other 2 fights are already booked.
Also the reason Randy agreed to fight Lesnar is because he would like to work of some rust. Sure he is the UFC HW champ. But he also hasn't fought in over a year. And Brock having as little experience as he does benefits Randy.
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DWright
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Post by DWright on Sept 3, 2008 16:28:38 GMT -5
No, it's because he and I have actually talked to him about in the past (and he doesn't act like a 6 year old in doing so) and I actually respect his opinion. He actually presents points as to why he thinks things. He just doesn't say "I HATE HIM ROOOAR IDIOTS!" He actually presented why he feels Brock didn't impress him. Then other people presented why he DID impress them, and he respected it, instead of throwing multiple temper tantrums and making stuff up... \this whole thing started because I said Brock was completely not impressive in his win against Herring..I gave my reasons why and you jumped all over it...straight dogged me cause my opinion..and now this guy has the same opnion and his word is gold to you ?? and im acting like the 6 yr old ?? please bro I didn't "dog" anything...you came out acting like a child. And you STILL haven't given reasons. You said he did a bit of lay and pray (which he didn't) and didn't cause any damage (which he did) |
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Post by axemurderer on Sept 3, 2008 16:41:19 GMT -5
this whole thing started because I said Brock was completely not impressive in his win against Herring..I gave my reasons why and you jumped all over it...straight dogged me cause my opinion..and now this guy has the same opnion and his word is gold to you ?? and im acting like the 6 yr old ?? please bro I didn't "dog" anything...you came out acting like a child. And you STILL haven't given reasons. You said he did a bit of lay and pray (which he didn't) and didn't cause any damage (which he did) no I gave my reasons...ill tell you again to refreshen the SAME THING I SAID WHEN I FIRST said I wasnt impressed..Brock landed one meaningful punch and that was in the first round, the first 20 seconds....sure he pounded on the guy, but all punches so they didnt get stood up. go tap yourself on the eye 100 times and regardless of the actual power you will bruise and swell..so the damage to his face didnt bother me at all..not once after the first punch did Brock threaten to have the fight stopped, or threaten a submission. he put Herring to the ground with good takedowns and did little to try and win the fight. Like I said a few meaningless flurries that were only thrown to not get stood up. he did LITTLE if anything to improve his position out of fear of catching a knee bar obviously, or purely because the lack of skill. if he was throwingaround Herring with ease there is no reason why he couldnt roll him over and get him in full mount position and punch his lights out... Like I said..he did not impress me at all in that decision. |
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DWright
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Post by DWright on Sept 3, 2008 17:23:21 GMT -5
I'm convinced most MMA "fans" will never, ever be happy.
Kimbo Slice doesn't fight anyone of value, and people (me included) say he's awful. Wait till he fights someone good. Other people say it's only his 3rd fight, give him time. They should handle him with kid gloves.
Brock Lesnar fights a true HW, and people say they aren't impressed. It was his 3rd fight and he man handled a true opponent. He's taking fights against legit HW. He's not sitting back fighting cans, and people bitch and moan.
If Kimbo were to beat Heath Herring, people would be salivating. Kimbo would be the next coming of his trainer, Bas Rutten. Lesnar is taking on real competition and not backing down from anyone. Kimbo is ducking Brett Rogers and facing guys like Bo Cantrell, Tank Abbot, James Thompson...
I was VERY impressed with Lesnar in his 3rd MMA fight. He showed composure. He didn't over react. He threw a very good punch, a few good leg kicks, and knee's in the clinch. On the ground, he kept working (and please NEVER say Lesnar hitting him was to just keep it from standing. Lesnar's bear-like paws pack enough punch to hurt pretty bad, plus he was taking down Herring at will.) Lesnar was easily passing guard, he was easily taking mounts, he was easily taking dominating positions (mount/his back) numerous times. He caused considerable damage, walked away without a scratch, and won 30-26. That's impressive.
Some people are just never happy.
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Post by axemurderer on Sept 3, 2008 17:43:35 GMT -5
I'm convinced most MMA "fans" will never, ever be happy. Kimbo Slice doesn't fight anyone of value, . never talked about Kimbo Slice...all I can say about him is its not his fault who he fights..he has an obligation to abide by..and if the promoters make him fight someone of crap, he has to fight them...and of course they are going to protect Kimbo..the man is a marketing GIANT..I like Kimbo... on youtube...doing what he does..FIGHTING people...does he have business in the ring...not at all..but who knows he can turn out to be a decent fighter if he learns. am I impressed with MMA Kimbo..not a shits worth..am I impressed with Kimbo in streetfights..  yes because in one video he lets a 245 pound man punch him in the face 3 times before he proceeds to beat that dude into oblivion. I would say go Brock for facing "quality opponents", but in all honesty, I think Kimbo can beat Herring also. He would be too much for Herring to contain much like Brock was. sorry that I hurt your little feelings that Brock didnt impress me. get over it. |
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DWright
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Post by DWright on Sept 3, 2008 17:57:43 GMT -5
I'm convinced most MMA "fans" will never, ever be happy. Kimbo Slice doesn't fight anyone of value, . never talked about Kimbo Slice...all I can say about him is its not his fault who he fights..he has an obligation to abide by..and if the promoters make him fight someone of crap, he has to fight them...and of course they are going to protect Kimbo..the man is a marketing GIANT..I like Kimbo... on youtube...doing what he does..FIGHTING people...does he have business in the ring...not at all..but who knows he can turn out to be a decent fighter if he learns. am I impressed with MMA Kimbo..not a ****s worth..am I impressed with Kimbo in streetfights.. yes because in one video he lets a 245 pound man punch him in the face 3 times before he proceeds to beat that dude into oblivion. I would say go Brock for facing "quality opponents", but in all honesty, I think Kimbo can beat Herring also. He would be too much for Herring to contain much like Brock was. sorry that I hurt your little feelings that Brock didnt impress me. get over it. Heath Herring can beat Igor Vovchanchyn...but KIMBO would be too much for him? I've heard it all now. You really need to calm down. I wasn't even aiming directly at you with my latest post. I was simply stating that people LIKE you won't ever be satisfied. That's why I stay away from Sherdog forums most of the time. There are too many that complain and complain and ruin it for others. I really could care less what you thought about the Lesnar fight, as your opinion holds zero weight in my eyes. Now it's happening here. For a while, we had a nice group that could have MMA discussions. Now we're getting people that throw insults, call people douchebags, etc. It's pathetic. I'm just going to ignore posts from people insult and act like 6 year olds, acting as if their posts don't even exist on these boards, so I can at least enjoy talking about MMA from people that act like they're adults. |
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on Sept 3, 2008 18:03:46 GMT -5
Brock landed one meaningful punch and that was in the first round, the first 20 seconds.... 1) He landed more than that. 2) Every punch that lands is meaningful, especially when your opponent isn't responding. The judges are watching. 3) If we're using the "one meaningful punch" as a way to discredit a fighter's performance, then we might as well throw half of Chuck Liddell's wins right out of the record book. Was he a crappy fighter, too? 4) I have now micro-edited three different posts to remove name-calling. I'm done doing that. From here on, I delete the whole post, and save myself time. If you have something to say and actually want people to see what you typed, I suggest you keep it civil. I have better things to do than meticulously edit every post for someone who can't filter their own behavior. You insult someone, from now on, I delete the whole thing in one shot. |
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Post by axemurderer on Sept 3, 2008 18:08:29 GMT -5
never talked about Kimbo Slice...all I can say about him is its not his fault who he fights..he has an obligation to abide by..and if the promoters make him fight someone of crap, he has to fight them...and of course they are going to protect Kimbo..the man is a marketing GIANT..I like Kimbo... on youtube...doing what he does..FIGHTING people...does he have business in the ring...not at all..but who knows he can turn out to be a decent fighter if he learns. am I impressed with MMA Kimbo..not a ****s worth..am I impressed with Kimbo in streetfights.. yes because in one video he lets a 245 pound man punch him in the face 3 times before he proceeds to beat that dude into oblivion. I would say go Brock for facing "quality opponents", but in all honesty, I think Kimbo can beat Herring also. He would be too much for Herring to contain much like Brock was. sorry that I hurt your little feelings that Brock didnt impress me. get over it. Heath Herring can beat Igor Vovchanchyn...but KIMBO would be too much for him? I've heard it all now. You really need to calm down. I wasn't even aiming directly at you with my latest post. I was simply stating that people LIKE you won't ever be satisfied. That's why I stay away from Sherdog forums most of the time. There are too many that complain and complain and ruin it for others. I really could care less what you thought about the Lesnar fight, as your opinion holds zero weight in my eyes. Now it's happening here. For a while, we had a nice group that could have MMA discussions. Now we're getting people that throw insults, call people douchebags, etc. It's pathetic. I'm just going to ignore posts from people insult and act like 6 year olds, acting as if their posts don't even exist on these boards, so I can at least enjoy talking about MMA from people that act like they're adults. dude he beat Vovchanchyn almost 7 years ago..sure maybe he was decent back then..but right now you think he could handle someone with the strength, speed, and chin as Kimbo ? really ? come on..trust me..if he couldnt stop Brock Lesnar from having his way, what makes you think he could handle Kimbo who is going to through a barrage of punches and ground and pound at him, and if Herring does connect he is still going to see this dude coming at him full force ?.. Kimbo is 6-2 and 240 LBS Brock is 6-2 and 265 lbs so they are similar size and almost similar weight..have you ever seen kimbo ?? dude is JACKED.. im glad my opinion doesnt hold weight because bro neither does yours..youve showed nothing but biased opinions with your elitist attitude..im glad you will ignore my posts..cause you spit nothing but ignorance with your biased opinions. and I was starting to lean your way and understand where you are coming from..but the fact that you try to play up Heath Herring to make Brock look better is assanine...Heath Herring might have been someone good... 7 YEARS AGO when he beat Mr Igor..but right now, HERE and NOW..he aint shit. |
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DWright
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Post by DWright on Sept 3, 2008 18:11:37 GMT -5
Heath Herring can beat Igor Vovchanchyn...but KIMBO would be too much for him? I've heard it all now. You really need to calm down. I wasn't even aiming directly at you with my latest post. I was simply stating that people LIKE you won't ever be satisfied. That's why I stay away from Sherdog forums most of the time. There are too many that complain and complain and ruin it for others. I really could care less what you thought about the Lesnar fight, as your opinion holds zero weight in my eyes. Now it's happening here. For a while, we had a nice group that could have MMA discussions. Now we're getting people that throw insults, call people douchebags, etc. It's pathetic. I'm just going to ignore posts from people insult and act like 6 year olds, acting as if their posts don't even exist on these boards, so I can at least enjoy talking about MMA from people that act like they're adults. dude he beat Vovchanchyn almost 7 years ago..sure maybe he was decent back then..but right now you think he could handle someone with the strength, speed, and chin as Kimbo ? really ? come on..trust me..if he couldnt stop Brock Lesnar from having his way, what makes you think he could handle Kimbo who is going to through a barrage of punches and ground and pound at him, and if Herring does connect he is still going to see this dude coming at him full force ?.. Kimbo is 6-2 and 240 LBS Brock is 6-2 and 265 lbs so they are similar size and almost similar weight..have you ever seen kimbo ?? dude is JACKED.. im glad my opinion doesnt hold weight because bro neither does yours..youve showed nothing but biased opinions with your elitist attitude..im glad you will ignore my posts..cause you spit nothing but ignorance with your biased opinions. and I was starting to lean your way and understand where you are coming from..but the fact that you try to play up Heath Herring to make Brock look better is assanine...Heath Herring might have been someone good... 7 YEARS AGO when he beat Mr Igor..but right now, HERE and NOW..he aint ****. This is the last time I even respond to you as it's an obvious waste of time. That was in Vovchanchyns PRIME. It proves he CAN beat a great striker. You don't just lose that ability with more experience. Heath Herring would absolutely rip Kimbo apart. Kimbo wouldn't make it out of the first round. (Mind you, Herring also beat Cheick Kongo, now) You really need to face facts and realize that Heath Herring is a true, legit heavyweight. |
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on Sept 3, 2008 18:22:53 GMT -5
if he couldnt stop Brock Lesnar from having his way, what makes you think he could handle Kimbo Implying that Kimbo is better than Brock is just golden. That's good comedy right there. Brock Lesnar punched Herring in the face so hard he did an involuntary backward somersault. And that didn't knock him out. What makes you think Kimbo could punch him any harder than that? Regarding Kimbo's chin, James Thompson rocked him. Thompson. James Thompson. Yes, that James Thompson. Rocked Kimbo Slice. Yep. Say no more. |
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Post by axemurderer on Sept 3, 2008 18:27:44 GMT -5
You don't just lose that ability with more experience. Heath Herring would absolutely rip Kimbo apart. Kimbo wouldn't make it out of the first round. (Mind you, Herring also beat Cheick Kongo, now) You really need to face facts and realize that Heath Herring is a true, legit heavyweight. no you lose ability with age..unless you are Randy Couture..7 years is a long time..and Herring isnt a great fighter anymore..yeah I said it..he isnt a great fighter...sure he had a few decent wins..but again you are just saying opinions to make Brock look better. 7 years ago he had a good win ! yay go Herring 7 years ago !! guess what..Ken Shamrock was once the most dangerous fighter..and now he is being fed to Kimbo who will shred this guy like there is no tomorrow..its why they put Herring in the match with Brock..they knew Brock would win and it would be a "name" on Brocks win list..thats all he was , just a name |
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Post by axemurderer on Sept 3, 2008 18:29:52 GMT -5
Implying that Kimbo is better than Brock is just golden. That's good comedy right there. . ....I said that I think Kimbo could beat Herring cause Herring would stand and go blow for blow...if Kimbo was to go against Brock I think it would come down to Brock being able to take down Kimbo and pretty much have his way with him because he is too strong for Kimbo and Kimbo doesnt have ANY wrestling skill whatsoever. |
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