ClassicFan2
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 22, 2010 15:25:00 GMT -5
Posts: 3,265
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Post by ClassicFan2 on Jan 6, 2017 12:42:33 GMT -5
I agree with OP!
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Post by BadGirlRyleigh on Jan 6, 2017 12:46:23 GMT -5
I have to disagree with the poor choices to start off the line comment. Yes the Legends did have a couple individual figures that were odd choices, mainly Snuka in boots, but overall there were a lot of great figures. Series 1 was SCSA with a vest and Austin 3:16 shirt, NWA Road Warriors who were as iconic as WWF LOD, and Polka Dot Dusty which is also very iconic, even if you were the biggest NWA fan its hard not to think of yellow polka dots when it comes to Dusty. The only miss in the first series was Slaughter's attire choice. How can anyone argue that The Four Horsemen are a bad choice to kick off 4 packs? If Bill did a poll prior to launching the series asking who they wanted a 4 pack of, there is no doubt in my mind that the Horsemen would've been the overwhelming winner. NOD wasn't a bad 2 pack but it was an odd choice because you're getting 2/5 of a faction with no indication that the other 3 will ever be released. If we knew that Henry and Kama were just around the corner with the possibility of D'Lo if he ever gets signed, then I think it woulda been better. Rollins, Reigns, and Ambrose sell. Period. Sting and Macho Man sell. Period. I disagree. If the first HOF 4-pack would've been Nash, Hall, Macho Man & Luger in nWo attires, I believe it would've never warmed. I would've said Hogan instead of Luger, but I believe he was already out of the company when the 4-pack was released. Horsemen came out the same time as HOF2 Legends Series 1 should've been Austin & Dusty as is, Sarge in camo, LOD in red, & Steamboat in white. But actually, since I believe they had the guys from the first 3 series under contract at launch, it should've been: Austin (as is) Rock (as is) LOD (red) Steamboat (white) Jake (All Stars figure)
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ClassicFan2
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 22, 2010 15:25:00 GMT -5
Posts: 3,265
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Post by ClassicFan2 on Jan 6, 2017 12:49:46 GMT -5
original legends failed for 2 reasons. outfits werent one of them. #1 being to soon after Jakks CS run, and mostly it was during the height of the 2nd depression basically. I kept track of the times. EVERY friend I had in the construction/trade biz was on unemployment. no one had money. most forget, its A bit better now.
distribution is an issue. you dont make/pack/send out a million Tito's! he's a mid-carder. you make less and pack less of him.
starting choices for Elite 2 packs (like legends 2-packs) was BAD! REAL BAD! good lord, ultimate-maniacs shoulda been the 1st choice, not singles. gotta remeber, Mattel will cancel lines if they dont sell. get people hooked, collecting them. then throw in some obscure guys. btw, Jakks CS samoans went on clearance. 2 pack and 3 pack. I remember.
and the 1-2 flashbacks we get, should be some new figs not more Warriors or Savages.
should never had 4-packs. no ones spending $50 a pop on figs at the store, esp mom and pop for kids. they will ALL end up on sale, then in clearance. shoulda started with 2-packs. maybe make 4-packs an online/RSC exclusive.
my solutions:
a flashback only line. 4 figs a set. 2 new 2 repaint. be more careful with amount produced/cases packed with certain guys. (example: figure a Hogan will sell better than Tito and go from there). use brains when deciding who's in the line and how many of each to make/pack. POLL fans on Mattel website asking the 1000's who buy the figs maybe. put that link to the polls on the back of ALL Packages too!
and pick better choices for elite 2-packs. pretty simple there. kill the 4-packs, make me 2-packs.
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Jan 6, 2017 12:54:15 GMT -5
I have to disagree with the poor choices to start off the line comment. Yes the Legends did have a couple individual figures that were odd choices, mainly Snuka in boots, but overall there were a lot of great figures. Series 1 was SCSA with a vest and Austin 3:16 shirt, NWA Road Warriors who were as iconic as WWF LOD, and Polka Dot Dusty which is also very iconic, even if you were the biggest NWA fan its hard not to think of yellow polka dots when it comes to Dusty. The only miss in the first series was Slaughter's attire choice. How can anyone argue that The Four Horsemen are a bad choice to kick off 4 packs? If Bill did a poll prior to launching the series asking who they wanted a 4 pack of, there is no doubt in my mind that the Horsemen would've been the overwhelming winner. NOD wasn't a bad 2 pack but it was an odd choice because you're getting 2/5 of a faction with no indication that the other 3 will ever be released. If we knew that Henry and Kama were just around the corner with the possibility of D'Lo if he ever gets signed, then I think it woulda been better. Rollins, Reigns, and Ambrose sell. Period. Sting and Macho Man sell. Period. I disagree. If the first HOF 4-pack would've been Nash, Hall, Macho Man & Luger in nWo attires, I believe it would've never warmed. I would've said Hogan instead of Luger, but I believe he was already out of the company when the 4-pack was released. Luger is not a Hall of Famer and Nash wasn't in at the time they would've started production. Hogan was with the company at the time. Horsemen's issue wasn't popularity, it was over production. They did not warm initially and actually sold very well which prompted Target to order way too many more. You coulda had a greatest champions four pack with Hogan, Warrior, Savage, and HBK all with belts and deco and entrance attires and they woulda still had the same fate because there just isn't that much demand for that enormous amount of supply.
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ClassicFan2
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 22, 2010 15:25:00 GMT -5
Posts: 3,265
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Post by ClassicFan2 on Jan 6, 2017 12:55:14 GMT -5
I feel like if Mattel knew the HOF two-packs were going to be a thing, one of the recent tag teams that were split up in the Elite line - Hart Foundation, Nasty Boys, Natural Disasters - would have been a FAR better choice than the Wild Samoans. Even a Rockers repaint would have been good, as they had several eye-catching and memorable attires. Hart Foundation, Nasty Boys, Natural Disasters, LOD Red, Ultimate Maniacs, Hall/Nash, etc all shoulda been in 2-packs.
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Jan 6, 2017 12:59:37 GMT -5
People will constantly argue that someone's moment was not defining enough for them to be a DM but wanna put wrestlers not in the Hall of Fame in the HOF line. SMH
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ClassicFan2
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 22, 2010 15:25:00 GMT -5
Posts: 3,265
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Post by ClassicFan2 on Jan 6, 2017 13:09:14 GMT -5
Nearly all of the points in the original post have been brought up, explained, and brought up again, a millions times. - The reason that the attires in the legends were obscure was because Mattel didn't want to clone attires just made by Jakks.
There have been many lengthy agreements that the timing of the line was probably a bigger cause of the failure. It was too soon after Classic superstars, and people were unsure whether to start that commitment again, especially when the releases were so sparse.
Mattel had a long term deal that was extended. You can't release all the prime figures in the first few years. If you don't hold anything back, then you will lose the interest of long term collectors like us.
The reason that the DM line has some non DM events is because they have run out of DM events. e.g Ultimate Warriors' other defining moments had been released in other lines. And actually, while shortlived (3-4 appearances) everyone still remembers Ultimate Maniacs. But what are they going to make instead? When posed with that question, the forum did not have the answers.
- The HOF 4 packs, were actually fantastic sets. When announced people were very excited.
Matty Collector Arn and Tully Blanchard was going for silly amounts of money. Barry Windham was a new figure (allbeit a terrible figure). The Horseman are in the top 5 stables of all time.
The heenan family. Two new figures. Bobby The Brain in WM 3 attire and a fantastic BJS figure. Then a second Elite Perfect, and new fantastic Andre sculpt.
The problem with those is not the selection. The problem is that Target are DOGSHYTE!
- I don't see the point of the Shield 3 pack either, though it will sell like hot cakes. The Bash at the beach 3 pack is iconic. They aren't great figs and I just feel that WCW figs in general are for a small target market, but to call them a bad choice is ridiculous. What do you want, more of the same over and over again? We cry out for new figures.
You have to start being realistic about what is left in Mattel's lifespan with respect to former stars. There really aren't a lot left to make.
The alumni is thread bare. The amount of people in litigation with WWE is massive. Then you have the No-go's like Owen Hart, and dead people they can't trace like Dino Bravo's family.
And this is why we are getting more Sgt SLaughters', JBL's, Rereleases, Warrior's, HBK's and Macho's coming out of our ears. They sell for MAttel. They have attires for days, You see them on shelves, because they are made in far larger quantities than e.g the new Alex Bliss basic etc etc. THink about it.....The Ultimate Warrior....Alexa Bliss. Who is going to sell more Did you have to think long........ good post. lots of great points! but theres plenty of more figs to make and wrestlers to sign. jakks had no prob signing nearly 80 more other wrestlers for figs. if its only about $$$, then i guess more Warriors all day. but I know I and many others would prefer more new wrestlers/figs to collect. heres a few to go after: Hercules Don Muraco Harley Race Superstar Billy Graham Freddie Blassie Greg Valentine Rick Steiner Bad News Brown Brother Love Zeus Mr.T Giant Gonzales Howard Finkel Nikita Koloff Haku Mr Fuji (RIP) Crush (good/evil) Virgil Great Muta Midnight Express British Bulldogs Rock & Roll Express
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powerfred3k
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 12, 2012 22:12:11 GMT -5
Posts: 3,767
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Post by powerfred3k on Jan 6, 2017 13:19:19 GMT -5
Could not agree more with the original post. I'm only interested in the shield 3pack but I already own all there elite figures. It would be really silly to pay $50 just for those newly made masks.
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Post by Mongo Bears on Jan 6, 2017 13:32:35 GMT -5
Nearly all of the points in the original post have been brought up, explained, and brought up again, a millions times. - The reason that the attires in the legends were obscure was because Mattel didn't want to clone attires just made by Jakks.
There have been many lengthy agreements that the timing of the line was probably a bigger cause of the failure. It was too soon after Classic superstars, and people were unsure whether to start that commitment again, especially when the releases were so sparse.
Mattel had a long term deal that was extended. You can't release all the prime figures in the first few years. If you don't hold anything back, then you will lose the interest of long term collectors like us.
The reason that the DM line has some non DM events is because they have run out of DM events. e.g Ultimate Warriors' other defining moments had been released in other lines. And actually, while shortlived (3-4 appearances) everyone still remembers Ultimate Maniacs. But what are they going to make instead? When posed with that question, the forum did not have the answers.
- The HOF 4 packs, were actually fantastic sets. When announced people were very excited.
Matty Collector Arn and Tully Blanchard was going for silly amounts of money. Barry Windham was a new figure (allbeit a terrible figure). The Horseman are in the top 5 stables of all time.
The heenan family. Two new figures. Bobby The Brain in WM 3 attire and a fantastic BJS figure. Then a second Elite Perfect, and new fantastic Andre sculpt.
The problem with those is not the selection. The problem is that Target are DOGSHYTE!
- I don't see the point of the Shield 3 pack either, though it will sell like hot cakes. The Bash at the beach 3 pack is iconic. They aren't great figs and I just feel that WCW figs in general are for a small target market, but to call them a bad choice is ridiculous. What do you want, more of the same over and over again? We cry out for new figures.
You have to start being realistic about what is left in Mattel's lifespan with respect to former stars. There really aren't a lot left to make.
The alumni is thread bare. The amount of people in litigation with WWE is massive. Then you have the No-go's like Owen Hart, and dead people they can't trace like Dino Bravo's family.
And this is why we are getting more Sgt SLaughters', JBL's, Rereleases, Warrior's, HBK's and Macho's coming out of our ears. They sell for MAttel. They have attires for days, You see them on shelves, because they are made in far larger quantities than e.g the new Alex Bliss basic etc etc. THink about it.....The Ultimate Warrior....Alexa Bliss. Who is going to sell more Did you have to think long........ good post. lots of great points! but theres plenty of more figs to make and wrestlers to sign. jakks had no prob signing nearly 80 more other wrestlers for figs. if its only about $$$, then i guess more Warriors all day. but I know I and many others would prefer more new wrestlers/figs to collect. heres a few to go after: Hercules Don Muraco Harley Race Superstar Billy Graham Freddie Blassie Greg Valentine Rick Steiner Bad News Brown Brother Love Zeus Mr.T Giant Gonzales Howard Finkel Nikita Koloff Haku Mr Fuji (RIP) Crush (good/evil) Virgil Great Muta Midnight Express British Bulldogs Rock & Roll Express Great list. Billy Graham and greg valentine are both signed im pretty sure. Hopefully Bill has been at work on those two for a while so they can come out asap
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Jan 6, 2017 14:03:50 GMT -5
Great list. Billy Graham and greg valentine are both signed im pretty sure. Hopefully Bill has been at work on those two for a while so they can come out asap Cant remember if it was a RSC Q&A with Bill or if it was someone on these boards who spoke with him at a convention but he said a Graham is in the works but there's an issue with deciding on whether to do older WWWF or the more recognizable WWF with goatee.
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Post by Mongo Bears on Jan 6, 2017 14:11:50 GMT -5
Great list. Billy Graham and greg valentine are both signed im pretty sure. Hopefully Bill has been at work on those two for a while so they can come out asap Cant remember if it was a RSC Q&A with Bill or if it was someone on these boards who spoke with him at a convention but he said a Graham is in the works but there's an issue with deciding on whether to do older WWWF or the more recognizable WWF with goatee. I do remember that q&a and bill said he wanted to do a younger wwwf champ version but thinks the older goatee look would sell better. I don't remember him saying it was in the works though but hopefully it is and hopefully it's the 70's champ look or else I don't think I'll buy it even though Billy Graham is one of my most wanted
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maske2g
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 31, 2011 7:00:54 GMT -5
Posts: 2,972
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Post by maske2g on Jan 6, 2017 14:16:37 GMT -5
Nearly all of the points in the original post have been brought up, explained, and brought up again, a millions times. - The reason that the attires in the legends were obscure was because Mattel didn't want to clone attires just made by Jakks.
There have been many lengthy agreements that the timing of the line was probably a bigger cause of the failure. It was too soon after Classic superstars, and people were unsure whether to start that commitment again, especially when the releases were so sparse.
Mattel had a long term deal that was extended. You can't release all the prime figures in the first few years. If you don't hold anything back, then you will lose the interest of long term collectors like us.
The reason that the DM line has some non DM events is because they have run out of DM events. e.g Ultimate Warriors' other defining moments had been released in other lines. And actually, while shortlived (3-4 appearances) everyone still remembers Ultimate Maniacs. But what are they going to make instead? When posed with that question, the forum did not have the answers.
- The HOF 4 packs, were actually fantastic sets. When announced people were very excited.
Matty Collector Arn and Tully Blanchard was going for silly amounts of money. Barry Windham was a new figure (allbeit a terrible figure). The Horseman are in the top 5 stables of all time.
The heenan family. Two new figures. Bobby The Brain in WM 3 attire and a fantastic BJS figure. Then a second Elite Perfect, and new fantastic Andre sculpt.
The problem with those is not the selection. The problem is that Target are DOGSHYTE!
- I don't see the point of the Shield 3 pack either, though it will sell like hot cakes. The Bash at the beach 3 pack is iconic. They aren't great figs and I just feel that WCW figs in general are for a small target market, but to call them a bad choice is ridiculous. What do you want, more of the same over and over again? We cry out for new figures.
You have to start being realistic about what is left in Mattel's lifespan with respect to former stars. There really aren't a lot left to make.
The alumni is thread bare. The amount of people in litigation with WWE is massive. Then you have the No-go's like Owen Hart, and dead people they can't trace like Dino Bravo's family.
And this is why we are getting more Sgt SLaughters', JBL's, Rereleases, Warrior's, HBK's and Macho's coming out of our ears. They sell for MAttel. They have attires for days, You see them on shelves, because they are made in far larger quantities than e.g the new Alex Bliss basic etc etc. THink about it.....The Ultimate Warrior....Alexa Bliss. Who is going to sell more ??? Did you have to think long........ good post. lots of great points! but theres plenty of more figs to make and wrestlers to sign. jakks had no prob signing nearly 80 more other wrestlers for figs. if its only about $$$, then i guess more Warriors all day. but I know I and many others would prefer more new wrestlers/figs to collect. heres a few to go after: Hercules Don Muraco Harley Race Superstar Billy Graham Freddie Blassie Greg Valentine Rick Steiner Bad News Brown Brother Love Zeus Mr.T Giant Gonzales Howard Finkel Nikita Koloff Haku Mr Fuji (RIP) Crush (good/evil) Virgil Great Muta Midnight Express British Bulldogs Rock & Roll Express Mattel do not have the same deal as Jakks. They can't sign people who aren't signed to WWE. I would love all those. We are never going to get a Dynamite kid thats for sure.
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Jan 6, 2017 14:19:47 GMT -5
Cant remember if it was a RSC Q&A with Bill or if it was someone on these boards who spoke with him at a convention but he said a Graham is in the works but there's an issue with deciding on whether to do older WWWF or the more recognizable WWF with goatee. I do remember that q&a and bill said he wanted to do a younger wwwf champ version but thinks the older goatee look would sell better. I don't remember him saying it was in the works though but hopefully it is and hopefully it's the 70's champ look or else I don't think I'll buy it even though Billy Graham is one of my most wanted Definitely prefer WWWF champ Graham but if they made a HOF 2 pack old man Graham with The Rock Don Muraco, I don't think I could pass it up.
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Deleted
Joined on: May 13, 2024 18:22:16 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 14:19:52 GMT -5
Okay, A LOT of new responses. When I make a thread on any forum, I really like to respond to everyone individually. That'll be kind of difficult here, so I'll respond to a few. Before I start though, I need to make something clear. Because this seems to be a recurring theme in many of the responses... I AM NOT saying anything bad about certain wrestlers or their importance or your own personal liking of certain people. That's not what this is about. This is about starting new lines with a bang. Something that has not been done. And I don't think it's a coincidence that every multipack elite line has failed. I also see that people keep mentioning distribution. That seems to be the running excuse. I get it. But you also have to understand if they had shortpacked EVERYTHING in the first Legends line besides Stone Cold, it wouldn't be cost effective. Take HOF for instance. Yes, in a perfect world, they would have only manufactured 13 Titos for the fringe few that wanted one. But it doesn't work like that. They have to manufacture a decent amount of at least some items in every series to hit the margins they want. By starting the line off with a bang, and then tapering off with later series having more obscure characters interspersed with bigger sellers, the lines have a better chance. That's the whole point. Mattel's pacing has been really poor in some cases. So just to reiterate one final time, this isn't about what I want. It's about logic and a strong start. Believe me, if it was about what I wanted, I'd have a 7 pack of Shawn Michaels Elites from 96-98. And I'd have 96 Warrior made yesterday. Hell, my own personal 3 pack TNF would be HBK, Ahmed Johnson, and Warrior, as my favorite tag team that never happened. So believe me, this is not about my own agenda.
1) I don't care whether you asked or not. If you want to make sweeping statements, you need to be prepared for counterpoints. The first legends wave had Stone COld Steve Austin. The biggest star ever in the business. If you aren't happy that we also got the biggest tag team of the 80's, in awesome attire, then I'm not sure whether your heart is really in this, or you are young and don't care about the 80's
2) American Made Hogan is a brilliant figure. What do you want? More red and yellow??!?! Or are you just moaning that the MAttel Crystal ball didn't see the racism scandal coming and we didn't get the (Designed and made) Hollywood figure. That is not Mattels fault. They had a clear plan. DM.....a while late.....HH......a while later, maybe Tye dye. American made is from the time period where ironically Hulk Hogan MADE what wrestling is today. A Global behemoth.
3) Are you saying that the Horseman aren't one of the most famous and important teams in Wrestling history? Because again, if so, I'm not sure you really represent the interests of the fanbase of wrestling in it's current global size from the 80's onwards and you seem to have a personal agenda.
4 Your points are full of contradictions. Are you telling me that Undertaker Wrestlemania 14, was a bigger wrestling event than Stings first world title, or Ric Flairs last wrestling match? Because again that points to you having an agenda. It's no where near. The beauty of the first undertaker DM is in the attire. It's a phenomenal figure. MAttel have made an abundance of different Undertaker entrance attires, but you are singling out the one they don't have.
And are you seriously joking about TRiple H? After a great 5 year heel run he returns after 9 months out injured, that nearly ended his career and the fans go absolutely apepoop. This was a defining moment of TRiple H's career. And whilst I'm not a big fan, I recognise that he was an instrumental player in WWE and in the peak of his career before that injury.
5). NO. It doesn't mean nothing!!!! Have you not noticed the rereleases of figures that are selling for silly amounts? E19 HBK, Legends warrior, Boss man, Papa Shango, King BOoker, SDCC Taker. Why do you think this is?!?!? They were some of the most expensive figures on the secondary market. PLUS, you forget the fact that the set is cheap to make. A new Windham head, and a new Flair head, and all of a sudden we can get 4 elite figures for 50 bucks. You wouldn't even have got Tully for that price!!!
6) why do you care so much about the longevity of "Elite Tag teams" and 3 packs? They are never going to be long term, there simply isn't the appetite or the depth of possible content. If they don't sell as teams, they will just drop into other lines if the characters are big enough.. Plus, again, you have not thought about the fact they by dropping them in a 2, 3 or 4 pack we are getting more figures for our money? Cheaper for Mattel to make, cheaper for us to buy. It's a win-win.
For more niche characters, like The Wild samoans for instance, Would you prefer they eat up two spaces in the Elite Line for 20 bucks a piece? No, I didn't think so. So where do you put them in? What's your answer? Your answer seems to be, "Lets have another hall and nash, and we won't bother with an 80's tag team, because I don't care about them"
What they represent, once again, is a real lack of options for legends now. I mean they are releasing an Isaac Yankem..... There are 40 wrestlers we could think of that are more important to wrestling history, but MATTEL CAN'T MAKE THEM.
You seem to know all the problems, but you don't seem to have the solutions. Just poor alternate suggestions. A four pack with Nash and Hall. Like the one that has been cancelled you mean?......
1) Again, I only brought it up as a reference point that it should have been a learning opportunity for Mattel in the future. And almost all the lessons learned from it have not been applied. Aside from picking better attires (most of the time). But since we're on the topic, yes the choices overall were poor. And now you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say anything bad about Stone Cold. As a matter of fact, Stone Cold was the only choice in early Legends that made sense. People keep talking about distribution being the problem. But that goes hand in hand with sales. You can't move units if people don't want them. And if you shortpack them like so many are saying, then you don't make as much of a profit. That can work with a certain number of figures per line. But to do that with every figure in Legends Series 1 besides Stone Cold would have made the venture pointless for Mattel to pursue. They are a company after all. As far as the no love for the 80s comment, see the above for my general statement. The bottom line is that Legends were poorly chosen and paced. They didn't get to Warrior until series 3, at which point the line was already suffering. And they chose a terrible attire. They didn't get it right until series 6 Warrior, at which point the line was dead. And if you want further proof that they should have released him sooner, look at the fact that he got RERELEASED. That's the whole point of this thread that so many people seem to be missing. It's about STARTING OFF WELL. A lot of these figures can be made, but they shouldn't be kicking off the lines. 2) See everyone keeps doing this in every thread. You're defending the validity of that Hogan character. The bottom line is most people buying figures didn't know or care for that gimmick. And no, I don't expect Mattel to have a crystal ball. At the same time, given Hogan's mercurial relationship with WWE, it would have been wiser to get his main gimmicks out sooner than later. But that's a different topic for another day. 3) Dude, THE HORSEMEN SOLD POORLY. What part of that don't you understand? You can blame whatever you want. It absolutely contributed to the death of 4 packs. I'm not saying they weren't huge wrestlers or that even the figures themselves weren't great. They were. It was just a TERRIBLE choice for the first multipack of Elites since Legends, which failed for the exact same reason. 4) It's not about what was bigger. It's about what sells. GAB Sting did not sell the way Elite 23 Undertaker did. Hell, there's a reason it got a rerelease. It's that good! Again, not a reflection on my thoughts about Sting. He's one of my favorites of ALL TIME. No agenda here. 5) Very flawed logic. Just because a figure is scalped for high prices, that alone doesn't mean it needs to be revisited. It had to have had decent sales before or Mattel would have to be very confident that the timing (or what seems to be everyone's favorite go to, distribution) was off. And you just contradicted yourself. HORSEMEN FAILED. I feel like you're having acceptance issues with that. 6) Um, yes I care about longevity. I don't think it would be good for Mattel to make new lines and have them bottom out after one series over and over again. And to say that they can't be long term is just asinine. There could be Elite 2 packs for years if the pacing and roster selection were up to par. Kicking off with NOD is the antithesis of that. And poor argument at the end there. The Hall and Nash pack didn't get made because of the failure of the two sets before it. And if you really think they would sell just as poorly as the Horsemen did, you need to reexamine your love affair with the 80s. I get it. You liked that period. I did too. But stop thinking with emotion and think logically. EVERY MULTI ELITE LINE HAS FAILED. And every single one of them started off with poor roster choices. That is not a coincidence. I will take a set with Sting over the NWO any day of the week. I said it before and I'll say it again. I will take a Sting in every wave of every line. I would say Sting is just as big as Hogan, HBK & Warrior and is a larger name with bigger selling power than Hall and Nash. And while I purchased both sets yesterday the Wild Samoans was the HoF 2-Pack I was most looking forward to buying. Legends line failed because they overproduces the waves. And when series 1 & 2 was released it didn't help that they even over saturated the market with KMart's HOF which were straight up rereleases of the series 1&2 figures with a cardboard box plaque. They were competing with themselves. If I found the Series 1 or 2 figures there was no reason for me to pick up the HOF version. And vise versa. The HOF should have at least been repaints so they were different enough for people to want to purchase another Dusty, Sarge, Snuka, Funk and Austin. Same with the Legends 2-Packs. My TRU had over 100 cases of them. With Jakks CSTT they never received more than 3 cases of any wave. So basically they had to sell the same 3 sets where with Jakks that quantity wise would have been something like CSTT series 1 series 15. There was no way TRU was going to be ordering a second wave. As for the nod 2-Pack I have only seen it at a lone KMart and it was only 2 sets so I can't comment on that set warming because it isn't around here. HoF 4-Packs were also over produced. The Heenan set has been out for over a year and it is just now hitting my area store's in force. (I did find a lone one last year on New Year's Day) but since it was all Horsemen at all area Targets. The market isn't that big to have 30+ 4-packs at every Target. There are at least 10 Targets in a 30 minute radius of me so there is 300+ sets that need to move in a small area. Factor that for all the US you knew it was going to be a backlog that there wouldn't be a third and definitely not a fourth set coming. Not buying this whole distribution argument. There is more to it. To completely write off the poor roster selection in all lines that have failed is just willful ignorance. And if distribution is the sole reason for every multipack elite line and the terrible Legends line failing (which is just not the whole story like everyone thinks it is), then that's sad on Mattel's part for still ing up distribution after multiple years. But again, poor inaugural lineups have absolutely contributed greatly and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. Production and distribution is the issue, which Mattel noticed and are fixing with the .5 series sets. Though I think the Samoans were a bad choose, we don't know how limited these sets willl be. Maybe each store will only get a few cases and that's it. Because something warms in your area, doesn't make it a flop or a nation wide problem. You or any of us, can't call a line a failure...because we don't know the amount of units sold. What was your old username? It's obvious your banned before and are back. I base the term failure on the fact that those lines ended prematurely. And they all had one thing in common... Very underwhelming inaugural lineups. That's my entire point of the original thread. I was with you until that last part. Bizarre assertion to me. I have been nothing but engaging in discussion to everyone responding and keeping things on topic. And save for a garbage post here and there and some people taking things personally as you seem to have, this thread has overall been really healthy in my opinion. I have to disagree with the poor choices to start off the line comment. Yes the Legends did have a couple individual figures that were odd choices, mainly Snuka in boots, but overall there were a lot of great figures. Series 1 was SCSA with a vest and Austin 3:16 shirt, NWA Road Warriors who were as iconic as WWF LOD, and Polka Dot Dusty which is also very iconic, even if you were the biggest NWA fan its hard not to think of yellow polka dots when it comes to Dusty. The only miss in the first series was Slaughter's attire choice. How can anyone argue that The Four Horsemen are a bad choice to kick off 4 packs? If Bill did a poll prior to launching the series asking who they wanted a 4 pack of, there is no doubt in my mind that the Horsemen would've been the overwhelming winner. NOD wasn't a bad 2 pack but it was an odd choice because you're getting 2/5 of a faction with no indication that the other 3 will ever be released. If we knew that Henry and Kama were just around the corner with the possibility of D'Lo if he ever gets signed, then I think it woulda been better. Rollins, Reigns, and Ambrose sell. Period. Sting and Macho Man sell. Period. But they were bad choices. All those lines failed. And not sure a hypothetical poll with hypothetical results that you personally formulated for a line that has already failed because of underwhelming roster choices is very convincing. So yes, the argument is very real. If the line was still alive and hanging by a thread, I could see your point. But it's not. Again, I want to make this very clear. I'm not arguing against their validity in wrestling history or the quality of the figures themselves. They're fine. They were just a bad choice for the OPENING multipack elite line. Down the road after the line has built traction and confidence? Sure, a bad set here and there can survive. But to start things off? No way. There is no circumstance on Earth where NOD was a good choice to start off any multipack elite line, whether it was 2, 3, or 5 figures. On the last part, yeah they do generally. But will the Shield sell now as a 3 pack after the vast number of elites and basics they have already gotten of their group and single careers? And will that specific match of Sting (terrible looking figure) and Macho (who's getting a much better DM in months) and an inaccurate Luger sell well? I would bet that they are going to be underwhelming in their sales. I hope not. Because I want the 3 packs to continue. But I don't feel good about it at all. Only time will tell. Honestly who cares about who they release first...if they release it and you like it then buy it. If not then don't, it's as simple as that. Everyone making a big deal about distribution and shipment complaints. Or even better, oh they haven't made this figure YET. Meanwhile Ringside and some other notable online stores usually have stock on items. (Of course there's exceptions). I just don't understand why even deal with retail anymore if this is how you feel. I get what you're saying. But not everyone wants to pay RSC's premium on every figure they want. I'll do it for like a major major want. But 40 dollars for a figure is just hard to justify even once. I'm not fan of retail stores either though. Amazon is my go to. But that's not always an option with all the exclusives now. I have to disagree with the poor choices to start off the line comment. Yes the Legends did have a couple individual figures that were odd choices, mainly Snuka in boots, but overall there were a lot of great figures. Series 1 was SCSA with a vest and Austin 3:16 shirt, NWA Road Warriors who were as iconic as WWF LOD, and Polka Dot Dusty which is also very iconic, even if you were the biggest NWA fan its hard not to think of yellow polka dots when it comes to Dusty. The only miss in the first series was Slaughter's attire choice. How can anyone argue that The Four Horsemen are a bad choice to kick off 4 packs? If Bill did a poll prior to launching the series asking who they wanted a 4 pack of, there is no doubt in my mind that the Horsemen would've been the overwhelming winner. NOD wasn't a bad 2 pack but it was an odd choice because you're getting 2/5 of a faction with no indication that the other 3 will ever be released. If we knew that Henry and Kama were just around the corner with the possibility of D'Lo if he ever gets signed, then I think it woulda been better. Rollins, Reigns, and Ambrose sell. Period. Sting and Macho Man sell. Period. I disagree. If the first HOF 4-pack would've been Nash, Hall, Macho Man & Luger in nWo attires, I believe it would've never warmed. I would've said Hogan instead of Luger, but I believe he was already out of the company when the 4-pack was released. I'm glad somebody gets it.
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Post by qdogg on Jan 6, 2017 14:27:11 GMT -5
It seems like the nwo should of been represented in these 2 or 3 figure packs especially Hall and Nash. Surprised they didn't maybe save Afa and SIka for another wave. In the next 2 or 3 packs it would be great to see the nwo, faces of foley or the brood if they could get the rights to Gangrel. NWO without Hollywood, is like Lager with no alcohol, Paul with no John, and Burger with no bun.
TEPID!!!
A 3 pack with Hall, Nash and Bischoff or nwo Liz would be a pretty good set I think.
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Post by JNH2248 on Jan 6, 2017 14:28:40 GMT -5
OP is a Debate Machine!
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Post by Mongo Bears on Jan 6, 2017 14:29:19 GMT -5
I do remember that q&a and bill said he wanted to do a younger wwwf champ version but thinks the older goatee look would sell better. I don't remember him saying it was in the works though but hopefully it is and hopefully it's the 70's champ look or else I don't think I'll buy it even though Billy Graham is one of my most wanted Definitely prefer WWWF champ Graham but if they made a HOF 2 pack old man Graham with The Rock Don Muraco, I don't think I could pass it up. Ok yeah, I would buy that
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Post by JNH2248 on Jan 6, 2017 14:37:04 GMT -5
Cant remember if it was a RSC Q&A with Bill or if it was someone on these boards who spoke with him at a convention but he said a Graham is in the works but there's an issue with deciding on whether to do older WWWF or the more recognizable WWF with goatee. I do remember that q&a and bill said he wanted to do a younger wwwf champ version but thinks the older goatee look would sell better. I don't remember him saying it was in the works though but hopefully it is and hopefully it's the 70's champ look or else I don't think I'll buy it even though Billy Graham is one of my most wanted Along with Slick and Sherri to complete manager selections...
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Post by Mongo Bears on Jan 6, 2017 14:39:14 GMT -5
Bill said he can do Sherri! And he knows we want it so it's probably in the works. He said he's gonna do Scary Sherri
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Post by JNH2248 on Jan 6, 2017 14:40:26 GMT -5
Bill said he can do Sherri! And he knows we want it so it's probably in the works. He said he's gonna do Scary Sherri That's probably my pick out of her different monikers...
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