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Post by hitmancmedge on Sept 24, 2017 10:02:58 GMT -5
It's a win for collectors who only want one or the other, or can afford all of both - but for the majority of people buying $20 wrestling dolls, it means even more picking and choosing, which would cut into the sales of both lines. And then more complaints when the weaker selling one - which would be the Legends one like always - gets dropped. I mean, I definitely get your point and I don't necessarily disagree. But we know flashbacks sell well, and I'm of the mindset that if they're on their own in a small line, and especially if they're in their own unique packaging it'll be a good line. There's a good list of names they can use to sell the line. I don't see why it wouldn't be worth a shot. They have tried lines that have eventually failed so I don't really see how it'd be that much of a detriment for them to give legends another shot. I would imagine they've attracted a lot more collectors to the line since the original legends line bit the dust. I just think if they can make zombie figures and essentially re-release a bunch of basics that don't look much different at all to previous releases then they can try a two figure wave every quarter and let guys like Taker, Sting, HBK, Warrior and Macho carry the line. Two Figure wave? What would be the point then? You still wouldn't get the guys people are asking for like Greg Valentine, Don Muraco, Val Venis, Hercules, Kama, Nation Mark Henry in a two figure box, they would have to rely on guys like Warrior, Michaels, Taker, Macho Man, Bret Hart, Flair, guys they get spots in the main line anyway, so ultimately it would be pointless, and even after a few waves of that type of line it would be dead in the water.
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Post by Codyverse: Tag Team Champion on Sept 24, 2017 10:39:34 GMT -5
I mean, I definitely get your point and I don't necessarily disagree. But we know flashbacks sell well, and I'm of the mindset that if they're on their own in a small line, and especially if they're in their own unique packaging it'll be a good line. There's a good list of names they can use to sell the line. I don't see why it wouldn't be worth a shot. They have tried lines that have eventually failed so I don't really see how it'd be that much of a detriment for them to give legends another shot. I would imagine they've attracted a lot more collectors to the line since the original legends line bit the dust. I just think if they can make zombie figures and essentially re-release a bunch of basics that don't look much different at all to previous releases then they can try a two figure wave every quarter and let guys like Taker, Sting, HBK, Warrior and Macho carry the line. Two Figure wave? What would be the point then? You still wouldn't get the guys people are asking for like Greg Valentine, Don Muraco, Val Venis, Hercules, Kama, Nation Mark Henry in a two figure box, they would have to rely on guys like Warrior, Michaels, Taker, Macho Man, Bret Hart, Flair, guys they get spots in the main line anyway, so ultimately it would be pointless, and even after a few waves of that type of line it would be dead in the water. It doesn't have to be two. That's just my example. I think it's a way to keep both sides happy. When an elite wave is flashback heavy, flashback collectors are happy but current roster collectors complain not enough current guys are in the set. And vice versa. It could be 4. Hell, it could be 6. There's a market for flashbacks and we all know it.
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Post by Danger10 on Sept 24, 2017 11:24:14 GMT -5
I would love for the Legends Line to return. But if it's not broke don't fix it.
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Post by hitmancmedge on Sept 24, 2017 11:40:41 GMT -5
Two Figure wave? What would be the point then? You still wouldn't get the guys people are asking for like Greg Valentine, Don Muraco, Val Venis, Hercules, Kama, Nation Mark Henry in a two figure box, they would have to rely on guys like Warrior, Michaels, Taker, Macho Man, Bret Hart, Flair, guys they get spots in the main line anyway, so ultimately it would be pointless, and even after a few waves of that type of line it would be dead in the water. It doesn't have to be two. That's just my example. I think it's a way to keep both sides happy. When an elite wave is flashback heavy, flashback collectors are happy but current roster collectors complain not enough current guys are in the set. And vice versa. It could be 4. Hell, it could be 6. There's a market for flashbacks and we all know it. There is a market, but I think the market is exactly the way they do it now, sprinkled in sets here and there, even the hall of fame line has been on the line the entire time. One mistake like eventually distributing Tito Santana may have doomed the line to the point where the reason we probably haven't seen series 5 is probably in targets hands. One figure mistake in four sets is what almost dooms the entire line. People say the reason the legends line failed the first time was character choice and attire selection...all true, but at the same time now you have less first time "must have" legends and a lot of the iconic attires have been done since then that people wanted, red LOD, Steamboat, ECW terry Funk, most machos, most flairs, Scott hall, Kevin Nash, stone colds, rocks, Taker with the exception of a true 1998 taker, Kane they have all pretty much been done. People keep brushing this off but besides some surfer stings, an elite red tights Flair, 1998 Taker, IYH DX Michaels, what do you really have left to sell a completely new set that will fly off the shelves and sell. Try to make even a four figure set 10 sets deep, it just won't work I 100% guarantee.
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Post by Codyverse: Tag Team Champion on Sept 24, 2017 11:54:14 GMT -5
It doesn't have to be two. That's just my example. I think it's a way to keep both sides happy. When an elite wave is flashback heavy, flashback collectors are happy but current roster collectors complain not enough current guys are in the set. And vice versa. It could be 4. Hell, it could be 6. There's a market for flashbacks and we all know it. There is a market, but I think the market is exactly the way they do it now, sprinkled in sets here and there, even the hall of fame line has been on the line the entire time. One mistake like eventually distributing Tito Santana may have doomed the line to the point where the reason we probably haven't seen series 5 is probably in targets hands. One figure mistake in four sets is what almost dooms the entire line. People say the reason the legends line failed the first time was character choice and attire selection...all true, but at the same time now you have less first time "must have" legends and a lot of the iconic attires have been done since then that people wanted, red LOD, Steamboat, ECW terry Funk, most machos, most flairs, Scott hall, Kevin Nash, stone colds, rocks, Taker with the exception of a true 1998 taker, Kane they have all pretty much been done. People keep brushing this off but besides some surfer stings, an elite red tights Flair, 1998 Taker, IYH DX Michaels, what do you really have left to sell a completely new set that will fly off the shelves and sell. Try to make even a four figure set 10 sets deep, it just won't work I 100% guarantee. Set 1: 1998 Taker, Debut Kane, IYH DX HBK, Surfer Sting Set 2: WCW Bret, WCW Goldberg, WCW Flair, WCW Warrior Set 3: 1998-9 Matt and Jeff, SummerSlam 89 Macho, Surfer Sting Set 4: WWE Goldberg, 2000 Triple H, SummerSlam 02 HBK, ECW RVD Set 5: Nation Mark Henry, 1999 DX HHH, Red X-PAC, 2003 Kevin Nash Set 6: Razor Ramon, WM 19 HBK, WM 12 Warrior, 1999-2000 Sting Set 7: Purple Flair, 2017 Goldberg, paint splatter Bret, Debut Big Show Set 8: WWF NWO Hall and Nash, Kurt Angle, 2008-9 Jeff Hardy Set 9: Surfer Sting, Final appearance Warrior, LOD 2000 Set 10: Dude Love, NWO Syxx, WCW Jericho, Kurt Angle I did that relatively easy. Off sets of four, released quarterly that's a strong line for at least 2 1/2 years. Agree to disagree, but I'm of a strong belief that a legends line can thrive.
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Post by hitmancmedge on Sept 24, 2017 12:11:09 GMT -5
There is a market, but I think the market is exactly the way they do it now, sprinkled in sets here and there, even the hall of fame line has been on the line the entire time. One mistake like eventually distributing Tito Santana may have doomed the line to the point where the reason we probably haven't seen series 5 is probably in targets hands. One figure mistake in four sets is what almost dooms the entire line. People say the reason the legends line failed the first time was character choice and attire selection...all true, but at the same time now you have less first time "must have" legends and a lot of the iconic attires have been done since then that people wanted, red LOD, Steamboat, ECW terry Funk, most machos, most flairs, Scott hall, Kevin Nash, stone colds, rocks, Taker with the exception of a true 1998 taker, Kane they have all pretty much been done. People keep brushing this off but besides some surfer stings, an elite red tights Flair, 1998 Taker, IYH DX Michaels, what do you really have left to sell a completely new set that will fly off the shelves and sell. Try to make even a four figure set 10 sets deep, it just won't work I 100% guarantee. Set 1: 1998 Taker, Debut Kane, IYH DX HBK, Surfer Sting Set 2: WCW Bret, WCW Goldberg, WCW Flair, WCW Warrior Set 3: 1998-9 Matt and Jeff, SummerSlam 89 Macho, Surfer Sting Set 4: WWE Goldberg, 2000 Triple H, SummerSlam 02 HBK, ECW RVD Set 5: Nation Mark Henry, 1999 DX HHH, Red X-PAC, 2003 Kevin Nash Set 6: Razor Ramon, WM 19 HBK, WM 12 Warrior, 1999-2000 Sting Set 7: Purple Flair, 2017 Goldberg, paint splatter Bret, Debut Big Show Set 8: WWF NWO Hall and Nash, Kurt Angle, 2008-9 Jeff Hardy Set 9: Surfer Sting, Final appearance Warrior, LOD 2000 Set 10: Dude Love, NWO Syxx, WCW Jericho, Kurt Angle I did that relatively easy. Off sets of four, released quarterly that's a strong line for at least 2 1/2 years. Agree to disagree, but I'm of a strong belief that a legends line can thrive. Not bad tbh, there are a few in there I feel like are questionable sellers, but to each their own. But one thing I notice and maybe it's not you, but a lot of the reason people want a new legends line is to get guys they haven't gotten already and even it seems to me you admit through your lineup that some of those guys wouldn't work. I.E. I too would love a Greg Valentine, but damn I even admit he is an awfully awfully tough sell, same goes for guys like Hercules, Paul Roma, Don Muraco, Dino Bravo. But your lineups are pretty good, but when you list it like that, that is about all we have left for most of those guys. The warriors specifically, the ones you got would pretty much finish him off.
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Post by Codyverse: Tag Team Champion on Sept 24, 2017 12:23:31 GMT -5
Set 1: 1998 Taker, Debut Kane, IYH DX HBK, Surfer Sting Set 2: WCW Bret, WCW Goldberg, WCW Flair, WCW Warrior Set 3: 1998-9 Matt and Jeff, SummerSlam 89 Macho, Surfer Sting Set 4: WWE Goldberg, 2000 Triple H, SummerSlam 02 HBK, ECW RVD Set 5: Nation Mark Henry, 1999 DX HHH, Red X-PAC, 2003 Kevin Nash Set 6: Razor Ramon, WM 19 HBK, WM 12 Warrior, 1999-2000 Sting Set 7: Purple Flair, 2017 Goldberg, paint splatter Bret, Debut Big Show Set 8: WWF NWO Hall and Nash, Kurt Angle, 2008-9 Jeff Hardy Set 9: Surfer Sting, Final appearance Warrior, LOD 2000 Set 10: Dude Love, NWO Syxx, WCW Jericho, Kurt Angle I did that relatively easy. Off sets of four, released quarterly that's a strong line for at least 2 1/2 years. Agree to disagree, but I'm of a strong belief that a legends line can thrive. Not bad tbh, there are a few in there I feel like are questionable sellers, but to each their own. But one thing I notice and maybe it's not you, but a lot of the reason people want a new legends line is to get guys they haven't gotten already and even it seems to me you admit through your lineup that some of those guys wouldn't work. I.E. I too would love a Greg Valentine, but damn I even admit he is an awfully awfully tough sell, same goes for guys like Hercules, Paul Roma, Don Muraco, Dino Bravo. But your lineups are pretty good, but when you list it like that, that is about all we have left for most of those guys. The warriors specifically, the ones you got would pretty much finish him off. I agree with you here. I'd love a Valentine, but it'd be a tough sell. He'd have to be a 1 per case and have strong sellers around him. I'm looking at it as a way to get flashbacks and allow more slots in the elite sets for current roster guys and also allow the flashback line to pump out more of the desired looks of guys that are sought after. I think it'd be worth a shot, at least.
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Post by kiloinnorcal on Sept 24, 2017 12:26:03 GMT -5
Jakks was able to individually sign particular wrestlers, while Mattel prefers to only use wrestlers under some form of WWE contract in order to save money.
I imagine production costs are much more expensive today for Mattel than they were for Jakks in 2000.
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Deleted
Joined on: Apr 28, 2024 16:11:57 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 18:01:45 GMT -5
This figure would be targeted at collectors like you and I who grew up watching "The Hammer" and know who he is, NOT some 10 year old kid. If they can release Magnum TA, whom only the hardest of hardcore wrestling fans know then I don't see why they can't release Greg Valentine whom a lot more people know due to him being part of the Golden Era. They just released a Brutus Beefcake figure and now we have word that a second one may be coming- this goes counter to your argument IMO that Golden Era figures don't sell. I am surprised to hear that they might be making another Beefcake figure, I thought you would only see one made with all the talk about flashbacks not selling and the sudden shift away from flashbacks and more emphasis on the current product.
Greg Valentine can be released the same way they are releasing Virgil- an online exclusive, available in limited quantities. I think this is the best release model for the less popular guys that some of us old school collectors want- online exclusives produced in much smaller quantity. The tide has shifted from what I see, there are not as many older collectors in the game as their were a few years ago so even a 1 per case release in the main elite line would probably warm these days.
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Post by JC Motors on Sept 25, 2017 10:44:38 GMT -5
The problem with the legends line was due to the fact of the lesser known attires. Series 1 Sgt Slaughter comes to mind. Nobody remembers when he wore that blue and white attire because it's obscure. Everybody remembers him wearing camouflage. Mattel tried to be different than the Jakks CS line by choosing obscure attires. That's what partially killed it. Plus the line came out right when Mattel took over from Jakks. People simply didn't want to reinvest in new figures
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Post by Cammi Oh on Sept 25, 2017 11:22:01 GMT -5
I avoided Mattel figures for a long time due to the size of my CS collection.
I wish Mattel would do a Legend figure of the month subscription like they did with Masters of the Universe.
They could do really obscure figures mixed with more mainstream guys with a Sub exclusive that you can only get by subscribing. The rest of the figures would just go on sale on Mattel's site each month. The more popular characters could help with the less known Legends.
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ClassicFan2
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 22, 2010 15:25:00 GMT -5
Posts: 3,257
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Post by ClassicFan2 on Sept 25, 2017 15:19:33 GMT -5
as ive said and others on here, 4 fig set, every quarter! 16 figs a year we can count on and be excited to collect. collect a line as opposed to a fig here and there. then 4 HOF sets per year, and sprinkles in TNF.
Vandross put some good line-ups for examples. id have more golden era guys in there, but keep em mostly like that so the lines sell, as attitude era is most popular.
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Post by aggressiveperfectpoor on Sept 25, 2017 15:32:43 GMT -5
And NO MORE Savages! We don't need 1000 Savages out there. He's about the equivalent of John Cena. Except kids actually know who Cena is. I'm really tired of seeing Savage in every outfit he's ever worn. He's been done to death YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH!...I kid, you're actually quite a delightful person and useful asset and contributer to these forums.
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Post by aggressiveperfectpoor on Sept 25, 2017 15:34:33 GMT -5
You could add Goldberg and the Hardy's to that list too(!). And Foley... Absolutely. So we got 20 guys most people could name at least two different attires that they want That's 40 figures right off the bat And don't forget the Hulkster once he gets out of time out.
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mrassbillygunn
Main Eventer
WF 10+ Year Member
Joined on: Jul 23, 2011 19:35:48 GMT -5
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Post by mrassbillygunn on Sept 25, 2017 17:25:05 GMT -5
I understand all the arguments about why Mattel cant make them however...they are in this business to make figures and thats where the buck stops. They should be doing more legends figures regardless, so many legends especially if you wanna go back to the 70s, used very basic ring gear, we arent talking about alot of new tooling, these are guys that wore nothing but trunks and a pair of boots for the most part. I think Mattel suck when it comes to legends and say what you want about Jakks, atleast they did their job and released them.
Not even a Billy Graham figure..a Bob Backlund...I mean they would rather do countless re-releases rather than spend some money and put new figures out.
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Post by PrincessOfSunlight on Sept 25, 2017 17:31:16 GMT -5
The general apathy towards wrestling and WWE that people have these days, makes it really hard to sell Stevie Rays and Sycho Sids. There is just nothing to make spending the amount of money they have to charge on these characters worthwhile.
If and it's a massive more chance of Aliens invading earth at this point If, wrestling became hot again then you can afford to slip these characters in.
But selling whole sets of classic wrestlers? Not viable in 2017.
My biggest gripe is that when they do put flashbacks in, they're not using the biggest names possible like Austin, hHh, Shawn, Y2J, Edge, Goldberg, Guerrero, Nash, Vince. Guaranteed sellers. No they're hauled off into niche, harder for stores to stock sets or exclusives so those even with the spare dollar to pick up a nice blast from the past can't because the one they truly would impulse-buy has the price jacked up for them through shipping and fees.How to disenchant a collector 101.
I know everyone wants new faces all the time but the drip feed technique is the only way, picking the right moment and not flooding the shelves with them wave after wave.
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erikg
Superstar
Joined on: May 31, 2016 9:41:59 GMT -5
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Post by erikg on Sept 25, 2017 18:21:56 GMT -5
The general apathy towards wrestling and WWE that people have these days, makes it really hard to sell Stevie Rays and Sycho Sids. There is just nothing to make spending the amount of money they have to charge on these characters worthwhile. If and it's a massive more chance of Aliens invading earth at this point If, wrestling became hot again then you can afford to slip these characters in. But selling whole sets of classic wrestlers? Not viable in 2017. My biggest gripe is that when they do put flashbacks in, they're not using the biggest names possible like Austin, hHh, Shawn, Y2J, Edge, Goldberg, Guerrero, Nash, Vince. Guaranteed sellers. No they're hauled off into niche, harder for stores to stock sets or exclusives so those even with the spare dollar to pick up a nice blast from the past can't because the one they truly would impulse-buy has the price jacked up for them through shipping and fees.How to disenchant a collector 101. I know everyone wants new faces all the time but the drip feed technique is the only way, picking the right moment and not flooding the shelves with them wave after wave. Why is it not viable in 2017? Forgive me for being relatively new at this but I see Sting come back, I see Goldberg come back, I don't see why nostalgia wouldn't sell just as well as it did in the past.
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FUSamBaker
Main Eventer
Biggest crush on Sami Zayn.
Joined on: Sept 6, 2005 19:25:20 GMT -5
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Post by FUSamBaker on Sept 25, 2017 20:09:01 GMT -5
And NO MORE Savages! We don't need 1000 Savages out there. He's about the equivalent of John Cena. Except kids actually know who Cena is. I'm really tired of seeing Savage in every outfit he's ever worn. He's been done to death YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH!...I kid, you're actually quite a delightful person and useful asset and contributer to these forums. Awe thanks! I just want to be loved on here haha.
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Post by Codyverse: Tag Team Champion on Sept 25, 2017 20:09:03 GMT -5
Absolutely. So we got 20 guys most people could name at least two different attires that they want That's 40 figures right off the bat And don't forget the Hulkster once he gets out of time out. Absolutely. Add at least 3-4 Hogans as well.
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Post by SteveHulk on Sept 25, 2017 20:44:01 GMT -5
I avoided Mattel figures for a long time due to the size of my CS collection. I wish Mattel would do a Legend figure of the month subscription like they did with Masters of the Universe. They could do really obscure figures mixed with more mainstream guys with a Sub exclusive that you can only get by subscribing. The rest of the figures would just go on sale on Mattel's site each month. The more popular characters could help with the less known Legends. I like this idea in theory - but a similar thing was tried before with the Matty Legends (Andre, DDP, Bundy etc.)... and bill said NO-ONE bought them (so much so, that they had to move Miss Elizabeth to a regular Flashback instead). Maybe things have changed and there'd be more interest - but I think the higher prices and shipping might put a lot of people off...
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