|
|
Post by 1992 on Oct 30, 2011 18:40:16 GMT -5
Well to be fair(and I know I sound bipolar because I was jut getting into with him, and now I'm backing him), but when Diaz was murdering people over in Strikeforce and after he beat Daley, a good chunk of posters here still believed he wasn't a top 3 WW because he hadn't beaten any top UFC WWs I remember that because I just referenced it in my last post.
|
|
PrideFcF
Main Eventer
Joined on: May 7, 2008 13:26:21 GMT -5
Posts: 3,807
|
Post by PrideFcF on Oct 30, 2011 18:47:52 GMT -5
Maybe I missed it, but I haven't really seen anyone talk about Diaz not being UFC level on these boards. In fact, I saw many pick him to win if anything on here. So I'm not quite sure what James' talking about unless he was referring to another message board. I think Kliquid made a few negative comments about Diaz, that's about it. It wasn't anything big, just simple "call me when he beats a top 10 WW" jabs. Other than him, I don't know of anyone else. I will say that many people I spoke to in real life seemed to have the "well Diaz is a Strikeforce dude, and BJ Penn is BJ Penn" attitude towards things. As for Penn, I really don't put him in the Cro Cop/Wandy/Chuck category just yet. He's one of those guys that seems to be his own worst enemy though. I remember almost all of us were saying that NOBODY at LW could beat him at all, but the common side-note some added was that only BJ Penn could beat BJ Penn. Not to say that Frankie didn't earn his wins against BJ, but Penn didn't look like the usual killer he is in those fights. And unless Penn gets his head straight, he's going to see a lot of long nights like that should he continue to fight. Either way, he's still one hell of a fighter, and he's one of those guys I'll never stop cheering for. |
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Oct 30, 2011 19:03:55 GMT -5
Well to be fair(and I know I sound bipolar because I was jut getting into with him, and now I'm backing him), but when Diaz was murdering people over in Strikeforce and after he beat Daley, a good chunk of posters here still believed he wasn't a top 3 WW because he hadn't beaten any top UFC WWs I remember that because I just referenced it in my last post. I didn't have him as top 3 at the time either, which I think was reasonable. I think when Diaz beat Daley, I had GSP, Fitch and Shields as top three. I didn't think beating Daley skyrocketed you to Top 3. As for Kliquid's comments, I think it was something along the lines of him recognizing him as top 5 when be beats someone top 5. Once again, perfectly reasonable. Daley was probably ranked 7-8, when Diaz beat him. Obviously now, a win over BJ Penn should put no doubt in people's mind where he is ranked in the WW division. |
|
|
|
Post by James Hetfield on Oct 30, 2011 19:05:18 GMT -5
Everyone is completely misunderstanding what I'm saying. I still rank BJ as one of the top fighters of all time, probably top 5. Did you guys not see any praise I have given him leading up to this card? I was just saying in general, nobody can really keep up with Diaz' pace. BJ's problem has always been other fighters dictating the pace on HIM, rather than the other way around. I love BJ Penn. You guys have no idea how torn I was when Frankie fought him. Very bittersweet to see your friend and your favorite fighter fighting. It was hell.
And as far as people saying stuff on this specific board, yes, people have doubted Diaz a long time ago during Strikeforce threads. Saying how he's a big fish in a small tank, and wouldn't survive against "UFC guys". A lot of people here have said a lot of things about Diaz leading up to 137, like the one I mentioned about BJ "pwning" him, which I thought was really an unrealistic look at things.
BJ is a legend, and he honestly shouldn't even retire. He needs to take his ass back to 155 or even try to make 145 and see what he can do. He's always been the dude that doesn't care about weights, but now it's time to say goodbye to 170 for now and see what else he can do with his career. The window isn't very open for him at 170 anymore, so it's time to go back down. It can't be good when you're EATING to make 169lbs.
|
|
|
|
Post by 1992 on Oct 30, 2011 19:19:11 GMT -5
Next logical move...push to Middleweight.  |
|
|
|
Post by SteveHulk on Oct 30, 2011 19:24:26 GMT -5
If he does decide to continue, BJ needs motivation - and if he could get down to 145, he might have the chance to be the only (MMA) fighter in history to win world titles at three different weights... which would be pretty special(!). I honestly don't think his heart's in it anymore though... and if that's the case, I'd rather see him go out now than continue on on "auto-pilot" and end up getting stopped or KO'd.
|
|
hammer
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 12, 2009 2:30:31 GMT -5
Posts: 2,619
|
Post by hammer on Oct 30, 2011 20:25:02 GMT -5
jorgensen/curran was a defensive clinic the first 2 rounds. i thought curran won the fight 29-28 honestly, but because he was on his back, i knew where the judges would head. jorgensen did a great job too though.
kongo/mitrione... meh. ive come to expect some clunkers from kongo, but mitrione disappointed me. didnt throw his hands with any urgency at any time. he needs to go back to being meathead, and not trying to be a precision striker. i had it 29-28 kongo, i thought meathead won the first simply because of the way he stalked kongo, and since there was only like 2 strikes thrown the entire round.
ill get to roop/hioki and nelson/crocop by the end of the night. still havent checked anyone elses posts in this thread yet, i didnt want anything spoiled before i got a shot to watch it... so i look forward to reading that after i get through these 2.
|
|
|
|
Post by 1992 on Oct 30, 2011 21:27:55 GMT -5
I'd rather see him go out now than continue on on "auto-pilot" and end up getting stopped or KO'd. Not that I disagree with anything else you said, but after seeing last night, I'm pretty sure a gallon elephant tranquilizer couldn't knock Penn out. Penn has taken some pretty one sided beatings in his career... GSP Edgar Diaz 3rd Round of the 2nd Hughes fight ...and may have been wobbled/rocked, but has never been dropped by a punch. Guy has probably has one of the most solid chins and biggest hearts in the sport. You could hit the little  er with a truck and he'd bounce right back up and start swinging. Matt Hughes should be damn proud of that TKO stoppage, because that was lightning in a bottle. |
|
|
|
Post by James Hetfield on Oct 30, 2011 22:03:01 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by 1992 on Oct 30, 2011 22:06:24 GMT -5
Just read that. A- ing-mazing. FOTY candidate right there, I have 0 doubt. |
|
|
|
Post by Boquest on Oct 30, 2011 22:11:14 GMT -5
Hard fight to call...Nate looked AMAZING in his last fight but before that he's been iffy at best, interested to see how this one goes.
|
|
hammer
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 12, 2009 2:30:31 GMT -5
Posts: 2,619
|
Post by hammer on Oct 30, 2011 22:37:03 GMT -5
i like nate alot, but i think cerrone is a level above him. nate never gets finished though, so the fight should be pretty nice.
finally got around to the last 2 main card fights... i had roop 29-28 over hioki, hioki looked brilliant in the 2nd, meh in the 1st and 3rd. did nothing with his takedown in the 1st, and roops striking was connecting, and did nothing in general in the 3rd.
shame to see crocop go out like he did, but hed have dropped alot of guys with that flurry at the beginning of the 2nd. roy nelson is just a big tough hick, even junior couldnt put him down.
|
|
|
|
Post by SteveHulk on Oct 30, 2011 22:41:54 GMT -5
Two words - Awe. Some. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Kliquid on Oct 30, 2011 23:21:32 GMT -5
Sure, Diaz looked amazing. No question. But that was against B.J. Penn. And I'm sorry, but B.J. Penn is no Georges St. Pierre. Nick Diaz won't come close to doing to St. Pierre what he did to Penn. Dude, seriously. off. |
|
Sonnen
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 16, 2010 8:42:36 GMT -5
Posts: 3,261
|
Post by Sonnen on Oct 31, 2011 0:02:47 GMT -5
^ I'm starting to like Nick Diaz more and more. And I'm thrilled that he has proven himself to fans with a win of BJ Penn. But the reality of it is, GSP controls fights, and I have a feeling he's gonna wrestle Diaz to a decision win. I'd love for Diaz to shock the world though and evolve the welterweight division. |
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Old School™ on Oct 31, 2011 7:08:40 GMT -5
Sure, Diaz looked amazing. No question. But that was against B.J. Penn. And I'm sorry, but B.J. Penn is no Georges St. Pierre. Nick Diaz won't come close to doing to St. Pierre what he did to Penn. Dude, seriously. off. What's your problem buddy?? I guess the truth hurts and you just don't want to hear it. At this point, Penn is NOWHERE near the fighter St. Pierre is. I think that point was proven in their 2nd fight when Penn couldn't continue. If you think Diaz will do the same to St. Pierre as he did to Penn, then you are dreaming. He won't come close because St. Pierre won't make the same mistake and stand and trade like Penn did. Penn got picked apart because he chose to stand and trade with Diaz. GSP ain't dumb. He'll "rush" him and take him down at will and pound him. I don't know how you could think that won't happen because it will. GSP is at a different level than B.J. Penn. He's a FAR better fighter. He's remained unbeaten much longer and he's remained champion for over 4 years. I think you guys are in for a rude awakening when GSP fights Diaz. GSP will put on another dominant performance and continue his unbeaten streak. |
|
|
|
Post by sean™ on Oct 31, 2011 14:34:49 GMT -5
Any given Saturday, boys. Any given Saturday....
|
|
PrideFcF
Main Eventer
Joined on: May 7, 2008 13:26:21 GMT -5
Posts: 3,807
|
Post by PrideFcF on Oct 31, 2011 14:45:53 GMT -5
Seriously. Old School acts like any guy he likes is incapable of being caught, but he loves to use the whole "anything can happen dude, that's why we love this sport" line whenever discussing other fights.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Oct 31, 2011 15:14:11 GMT -5
You know what, I definitely think St-Pierre can hold his own against Diaz on the feet. GSP will probably use his wrestling early on, which will cause Diaz to be worried about the takedown, thus affecting his stand-up. Not to mention Diaz won't have a reach advantage over St-Pierre.
|
|
|
|
Post by sean™ on Oct 31, 2011 17:51:21 GMT -5
Considering what got GSP into this fight, it's not illogical at all to think he might be more emotional during the fight, possibly choosing to stand with Diaz and dropping his gameplan. Anything can happen, so to talk in certainty is stupid.
|
|
+nod+of+approval.gif)
