TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on Jun 2, 2020 3:41:41 GMT -5
Bagwell, Hennig & Hall were all meant to be Wolfpac but Hogan cried about it so you got Luger & Savage in there instead....hip eh? LOL "They got all the cool guys, brother"
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on Jun 2, 2020 3:38:42 GMT -5
There was also animosity with Saturn and Kronus so Saturn would never work with him again
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 26, 2020 4:51:05 GMT -5
I don't think this necessarily comes down to "other talents" and more the fact that the OP is noticing a lot of wrestlers nowadays are not as good on the mic/in promos as in the past and personalities aren't either given the chance to shine or the wrestlers lack the "X factor".
Obviously WWE don't allow a lot of them creative freedom, but also alot of them just seem to lack certain qualities.
Go back to the 80s when a lot of top wrestlers could sell a feud/match with their promos and tell me they had/displayed/utilised "other talents" in their personality for the purpose of bringing in money. Ask yourself the same question referring to that era. Were the wrestlers allowed to show those talents or were they good at talking and portrayed their characters well?
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 26, 2020 4:31:21 GMT -5
Ill give you the answer that Bruce gave Conrad when he essentially asked the same thing. Merchandising. They were able to release tons of Rip Em shirts, posters etc to merchandise whereas if it was just Hogan in red & yellow it would be the same stuff they were putting out. Couldn't they have done new colours for Hulkamania for a while, say the same blue/white as the Rip 'Em ones but with the Hulkamania stuff? That way they could capitalise on the fans who liked Hogan for wrestling and didn't want a different "fictional" character shirt? Plus it would help freshen him up for at least a little bit before they go back to the yellow and red....
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 22, 2020 6:03:31 GMT -5
considering Jakks RA/DA run was from 2003-2009....and Mattel has barely changed their body styles in a longer timeframe than that. so you could say Mattel makes some great figures for 2010 standards i love Mattel Elites, they are the best wrestling figures ever. but the hate for Jakks on this board is so ridiculous it's not even funny. Jakks made hundreds of amazing wrestling figures during that era. Yet all everyone talks about is that one time they didn't paint the back of RVD's singlet, or the one set of 2 packs in like 2004 that had TTL arms. Nobody talks about how great 90% of the Classic line actually was, or the variety of characters they produced, the availability of EVERYTHING, consistent distribution and release schedules, great exclusives and great reveal events. everyone always sh*tting on Jakks like they were the worst ing company ever is just asinine. I think you're being too biased and nostalgic. Yes they were decent figures.... for maybe 3 years. Their lack of adaption and evolving killed them, and they only have themselves to blame. Look at Marvel Toys/Toybiz TNA figures. They had more articulation, unique sculpts, more detail, decent headscans and evolved past the action features to the point in 2007 they had done away with all "squeeze the legs" action features. The line was fresh, appealing and exciting. It was just a shame they couldn't sustain the sales and Marvel canned the toy making. Jakks had chances to evolve with new unique bodies. They had a chance to make Deluxe Aggression similar to Mattel Elites, where they would be the correct scale and plenty of unique bodies. But they didn't, and shot themselves in the foot because they wanted to have a whole new line that they thought consumers would support separate from RA. Their reluctance to adapt made these figures not as revered as they could have been. Here are some fundamental problems: - The plastic was great, until 2008 when they became very shiny and softer - The arms would easily become loose because of the cheap internal mechanisms - The skimping out on details, whether because of budget or on purpose to get people to buy a more complete, accurate figure later on - Wrong parts choices (wrong torsos, arms too large for eg Scotty 2 Hotty CS or Evan Bourne) - Same scale for everyone not the Undertaker, Big Show or Andre. Literally Kane would be the same height as Triple H and Rey Mysterio not far behind - Legs were too chunky, making it difficult to do powerbombs or hurricanranas. Literally could have had a gap to them like TTLs did, but for some reason nope, they made everyone have thunder thighs - Occasional laced boots rather than kickpads The only things they had in their favour: - Fresh new sculpts for 2003 which were revolutionary, and again occasionally in 2006 (ripped cruiserweight, ripped super heavyweight), then the flabby Regal/Flair torso, 2008 Rey Mysterio accurate shape (but not size) - Incredible headscans (even if too large after 2007, we could sometimes forgive for the amazing details) - CS being a well done, well revered line even if with lots of hiccups - More articulation than previous lines - Great distribution across the world (because WWE was still a strong brand) - Awesome pricepoint - The VAST roster of different wrestlers they made. But was it any better than Mattel year-to-year? - The fun factor in playing with them (which is the same for all wrestling figures past 1996) But all in all, the negatives outweigh the positives. Your opinion is strongly based in nostalgia, being younger and not having any alternatives. Take that out, be objective and they became too outdated. Mattel on the other hand may have flaws, but you cannot criticise them for lots of the same reasons. Their elite figures may have pretty much the same sculpts since 2010, but they didn't need to adapt and evolve as much. The issues Jakks had, they fixed. Their articulation is on par with Marvel Legends figures, a toyline that is well-received by collectors and exactly what the grand majority of them wanted it to be. The Jakks release schedule as you say, and the exclusives were top notch. But they are no better than Mattel, so as a comparison it would have to come down to the parts used, and the accuracy. And Mattel prove you can have all that. Jakks had the right parts for a lot of their figures, and they chose to not do so. Look at the Wrestlemania 17 era Undertaker and Triple H - HHH had his 2006 beard look, upside down logo and Undertaker had his 2008 black hair look. I could find many more examples of this. So no, I'm not going to give them a pass for stuff like this, when they were blatantly lazy and cut corners. I know us collectors are not the centre of the universe, but we are an important chunk of it, and for Jakks to omit simple things, not listen to us and constantly mess up, it does leave a bitter taste in our mouths. Look at Mattel - they've found ways to harmoniously to a good extent cater to both the younger fans and the older collectors. Give me one good reason why Jakks couldn't do that. I look back fondly of my memories as a kid and the joy I had finding Jakks RA in stores and playing with them. But I grew up and realised their flaws and had to be realistic with my choices and my money. There's a time and place for nostalgia, but sometimes you also have to be realistic about the past and it was not all that perfect....
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 22, 2020 5:33:38 GMT -5
Classic Superstars series 1 is full of inaccuracies: Andre The Giant has an outfit with two straps instead of one because they reused a Big Show body, Ultimate Warrior has elbow pads even though he did not wear them, Bret Hart has no elbow pads even though he actually did wear them. And then there's the Undertaker, with the mentioned white spats and the fact that it's a recycled Titantron live figure in a ruthless aggression line. Basically, the long and short of it is, there's really no good reason for the mistakes on this set, and Undertaker in particular. It seems like Jakks always has communication problems between the design team and the people actually tasked with producing the figures. And then there were always the cost cutting measures like skipping out on a deco. Maybe it cost an extra .00005 cents per unit to paint the spats purple and the accountants made them cut it out! lol Also factor in the well-believed conspiracy that Jakks would purposely skip out on details (logos, tattoos...) not just because of budget, but to release future figures with said details in order for die-hards to buy them despite having bought the previous version. Happened a lot for debut figures/important guys that they knew everyone wanted. This practice is still being done today for many toy lines. For example in the Star Wars Mandalorian tv show products , barely any merchandise has been released with his nice, sleek and more visually appealing metallic armour. Instead we get the early, more rugged and worn look that is only accurate for episode 1 of the 8 episode season, and for promotional material. Reason being that they could almost double the sales by releasing the less popular look first, because people are clamoring for merch. So then those same people will buy a re-production if that figure is better. Therefor increasing profits. Jakks undoubtedly did this to an extent. Not 100% the reason for this instance with the Undertaker, but definitely for other figures. I The rest of the series is pretty mediocre to downright lazy. I loved the Bret figure when it first came out, but I think most of my fondness of it was coming from the fact that it was the first Bret Hart figure we'd seen in a long time. The lack of wrist tape and elbow pads killed this one for me. It just looked so incomplete. And while I wasn't mad about him not coming with a leather jacket, I always thought they should have at least included his signature shades. To credit Jakks, all of these issues were rectified with his Series 3 figure which was the definitive Bret in my collection for many years. Literally my case in point. Re-release a more complete and accurate figure shortly after, because they know it will sell despite others having bought the worse first figure. Clever but sneaky. And still done to this day in some respects in other toylines.
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 21, 2020 16:58:11 GMT -5
It's funny cos I used to watch WCW on British television, the weekly hour recap show from August 1999 onwards, and I can not for the life of me remember him as Buzzkill. Had no idea that he wrestled as him, never saw him at the time. Yet it was literally around the time I started watching.
I can remember him however as himself, and just can't remember the timeline for when he was himself/Buzzkill but must have been like October 1999 he became Buzzkill? Did he go back as himself with the blue trunks? Cos that's what I remember him for.
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 20, 2020 14:54:17 GMT -5
I don’t think they lost faith in Kurt. He was over like crazy, even before 9/11. I don’t HHH would have been as over as a face as Kurt was in that role (as originally intended). They just seemed to want to focus everything on Rock and Austin. The booking was annoying as hell though (for the whole Invasion era). With Kurt, it’s like they wanted to book him strong without taking the title from Austin. So they book him to destroy Booker, only to drop the title back a week later due to massive interference. I don’t think this should have happened as it made Booker look like crap right off the bat and Angle gained nothing from it. Sadly Kurt just seemed to be booked as an afterthought when he could have arguably been pushed as the next big face of the company. My thoughts exactly. WWE just did what they constantly did - flip-flop on pushes. I just watched the night after Survivor Series 2001, and simply by Vince claiming people should cheer for Kurt as a hero, they booed him, which was what they wanted. He turned heel to join the Alliance, but became the mole Vince was talking about and helped team WWF to win. By all accounts that WOULD make him a hero. But not in the wrestling world. I think it was the fact the fans were strongly behind him, then he became despicable and it was a big FU to the fans. Which is what the company wanted, but came out of the blue, didn't make sense and felt like a Russo swerve, because we would have expected Jericho to do that because of his tweener feud with the Rock. And even that was similar cos Jericho was also over huge. Why WWF has a fascination to turn popular babyfaces heel to get them "over" more is baffling. Whilst it had been done successfully with The Rock (Survivor Series 98) and Triple H (WM 15), it had been done to death eventually. Fans were sick of being burned on their favourites turning heel for the sake of it, which is why Rikishi flopped and Austin at WM X7 felt forced. Seriously I would have kept Angle strong as the overall hero, had Jericho turn and become the mole, then Angle feud with Jericho until Vengeance and not make Jericho the afterthought after winning the Undisputed title, or better yet erase that from history. But WWE became guilty of WCW's past transgressions by pleasing the top guys (Austin, Rock, Triple H) for fear of losing out on returns. Jericho only won the belt to be fed to Triple H as a "mega-face" upon his return. Austin being cheered after Survivor Series did not make sense to me as the fans all lost their memories of the past 7 months, but that's wrestling for you. WWE knew they'd cheer him. Although it would have made more sense to have Austin remain a heel and have Triple H the face in a rescheduled feud after their tag team imploded. Should have made Austin win the Undisputed title if they needed a belt but I don't think they did. WWE continuously get cold feet on pushing guys which is a massive shame.
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 19, 2020 17:05:55 GMT -5
I don't think they ever lost faith in him, I think they wanted The InVasion to revolve around Rock and Austin, and Kurt was just in a filler role in an attempt to establish another performer in a top spot Triple H was supposed to be in the role that Kurt took during the Invasion, but got injured. I doubt Triple H as a big face, destroying WCW guys left and right would have been treated like this.
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 19, 2020 17:02:40 GMT -5
He played his character, he played it well, and he's likable. You're looking way too far into this. Next you're going to tell me that the wrestlers talk to each other during the match and telegraph moves. Yeah... no I'm not. When wrestler's speak to each other, they cover it up and work to prevent it from being seen (unless it's Cena). Earl did this in every match, and it was always noticeable. So in your world, people are supposed to overlook obvious things like this where a performer is not doing their job to the same standard as others? Like I said, yes he was well-liked and played well in matches where he showed being more than just a referee. But strip that down and he messed up one of the most important things he was supposed to do, every night. If there was a newer referee who did the same thing with counts, everyone would be criticising him left and right. But because it's Earl, he gets a pass. Take that bias out of it, and participate in the discussion. Otherwise don't criticise me for pointing out something that is worth discussing on a board that talks about all sorts of things in classic wrestling.
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 19, 2020 8:54:57 GMT -5
I know I'm not the only one who thinks this.
My take is - he is not a "bad" referee, but in terms of pure refereeing, he is much worse than many others out there. For kayfabe and suspension of disbelief, he is terrible when it comes to near-falls.
You can easily in a split second see that it will be a near-fall because he telegraphs it by doing a much wider arm stroke for counting the third count than for the other 2. He sometimes also twists his shoulder and part of his upper body when doing it too. He does this just before someone gets their shoulder off the mat as late as possible before he counts 3.
It is so egregiously noticeable, that I just can't unsee it every time he officiated.
Add Kurt Angle into the match, a notorious late "kicker-outer" and it just looks laughable when Earl does the near fall even BEFORE Angle gets his shoulder up.
Other referees do not do this, and they are better. Eg Tim White, Charles Robinson, Mike Chioda.....
The only reasons Earl is so revered as he is are:
A. His tenure with the WWE as a senior referee B. His charisma in high stakes matches. He was no-nonsense, showed his disdain for heels and confronted them, for example Triple H.
Plus he bumped like a twig getting snapped.
Anyone have any reasons I'm wrong?
Haha all done in fun, but still it is annoying. Here is a great match showing his favour to the face (RVD) and the long third count with his arm for the kick out
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 19, 2020 5:32:56 GMT -5
Just read a list on what culture on Angle's title reigns, and got me thinking about his time in 2001.
It really annoyed me looking back. He was pushed so much, and unless I'm remembering it poorly, he was over huge. I was 11 at the time so may have it wrong. I got behind him so much as he fought off Alliance guys, feuded with Austin.... But I still feel they wasted his championship reigns and after he became the mole.
His 4-day WCW Championship reign in 2001 meant nothing, it should have been done for a reason but was wasted. It was clearly done to put him over going into a feud with Austin, and to have Booker lose it to the Rock later on. But it made Booker look like a chump and Angle had it for a cup of coffee, bringing no real benefit. Even his US title reighn was better done.
His WWE title reign in Sep-Oct 2001 was also wasted, I didn't realise it was for the American sentiment after 9/11, but to have done it for that reason only? That's what it felt like. Since they had built him up over months, only to fizzle out and feel like a wet fart.
Angle was over at the time, it seemed everyone was behind him chasing Austin for the belt and beating the Alliance guys. To have him win and lose it 2 weeks later was a slap in the face to us fans, especially since he never got his heat back and never held it again. He turned heel, became a mole after joining the Alliance, and at Survivor Series helped WWF win against them. But instead of being a hero, the very next night he was a massive heel and Austin was a face because the fans cheered him. I was gobsmacked.
He was booked so poorly after losing the belt, should have beaten Austin at No Mercy, stayed champion for a couple of months maybe and led the WWF team to victory. It should have been Jericho turning on the WWF only to have been the mole. Would have made much more sense. Then Jericho could have feuded with Angle and won the Undisputed Title at Vengeance 2001.....
Did the WWF lose faith in him? Because I didn't see it that way, but if you looked at Jericho and how far he fell after WM X8, he suffered the same, slipping down the card.
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 19, 2020 4:49:12 GMT -5
Similar to you, I lost interest in WWE in 2009 because my favourite guys left, the storylines dipped in quality, for years it was the same thing again and again (eg with Cena or Batista, and then later with Edge/Undertaker although those were better) and they wasted interesting storylines and characters. I thought 2008 actually was a breath of fresh air after 2007, but the newer talent got wasted, stuff like Kane vs Rey Mysterio went nowhere fast.... The 50-50 booking and the constant flip-flop pushes without giving those people a chance to properly shine in the right way.
I watched less and less in 2009 and was starting to really enjoy TNA despite it losing its original "feel". In 2010 I was enjoying seeing Jeff Hardy and RVD, and ex WWE guys coming in and mixing things up with the TNA originals. But slowly slowly, they ruined the TNA originals, it became too glitz and glam and WWE-lite and by 2014 I just couldn't support that.
I watched WWE again for a few months in 2015, was excited with a few guys (Rollins, New Day, Kalisto, the women's revolution was good to begin with), but again - the really poor use of talent, the flip-flop pushes, the same-old-same-old..... I got sick of it really quick.
Since then I occasionally watched ppvs and enjoyed Styles vs Cena, they brought back the Hardy Boyz, Kurt Angle.... But even then I just didn't care anymore. Nothing was interesting or fresh.
Now I watch the Royal Rumble match, a few Wrestlemania matches and occasional HITC matches.
I like the look and feel of AEW but just can't commit right now. Feel burned by investing in TNA so much only to have it disappoint me, and there are so many guys I don't know in AEW. I find it harder to get behind people now.
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 17, 2020 9:59:12 GMT -5
I would have kept much the same as it did happen mainly because they needed to capitalise on WCW as quick as possible and the big stars were sitting out. I would have first of all brought in Jarrett (Vince would need to leave his ego at the door), kept Bagwell (and disciplined him), maybe Luger (but as a mid-card role only, similar to how DDP was), DDP would have been a true main eventer and threat, and paid out Flair's contract to bring him in earlier. Like right at the start. Maybe do the same for someone else, like Steiner (although he was a hot head and exposed in 2003, so who knows). Booker T would have been as protected as he was but not made a joke in front of the Rock. So Team WCW would have been Flair, DDP, Booker T, Bagwell and Jarrett. Booked STRONG. No Vince burying ego, no "Stephanie buying ECW" and making this too much McMahon vs McMahon. Just Shane and Paul as the Alliance leaders. Then have Big Show and Jericho as defectors. That way, WCW would have been a real credible threat. Kronik should have been more too. Very disappointed with that. Its worth noting that Steiner was only exposed in 2003 because of his drop foot injury. He didn't have that in 2001....also if he had been booked a bit more wisely in 2003? theyd have got more outta him...IMHO. True, and I had known about that, but was that the reason he got gassed so much in the matches with Triple H, or was it the adapting to WWE style matches and the demands of arguably a much larger stage than he had had as a main eventer in WCW? In terms of exposed, it wasn't just his wrestling skill, but other factors like cardio, stage fright.... Did they contribute? We could compare to 2006-2008 TNA Steiner (even slightly after his thoraxic surgery), he was a great wrestler, but protected in matches and on a smaller stage. I think he just couldn't hack it in WWE as a main eventer.
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Selling
May 17, 2020 6:40:52 GMT -5
Post by TheXtremisT on May 17, 2020 6:40:52 GMT -5
Triple H selling Earl Hebner's push and shove haha
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 17, 2020 6:37:08 GMT -5
I would have kept much the same as it did happen mainly because they needed to capitalise on WCW as quick as possible and the big stars were sitting out.
I would have first of all brought in Jarrett (Vince would need to leave his ego at the door), kept Bagwell (and disciplined him), maybe Luger (but as a mid-card role only, similar to how DDP was), DDP would have been a true main eventer and threat, and paid out Flair's contract to bring him in earlier. Like right at the start. Maybe do the same for someone else, like Steiner (although he was a hot head and exposed in 2003, so who knows). Booker T would have been as protected as he was but not made a joke in front of the Rock.
So Team WCW would have been Flair, DDP, Booker T, Bagwell and Jarrett. Booked STRONG. No Vince burying ego, no "Stephanie buying ECW" and making this too much McMahon vs McMahon. Just Shane and Paul as the Alliance leaders. Then have Big Show and Jericho as defectors. That way, WCW would have been a real credible threat. Kronik should have been more too. Very disappointed with that.
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 17, 2020 6:32:12 GMT -5
Here's my post from my (unintentionally) duplicate post: If I had booked it (using only who was actually signed and/or not injured, and not rewriting history of things like Shawn Stasiak not leaking their involvement in WM 17 which led to it being cancelled), I would have started it in a similar manor but had a slower build. At first, I would have had Shane consistently trying to recruit or align himself with wrestlers, insinuating that certain guys were under appreciated in the WWE and would be treated better in Shane's WCW and/or that a storm was coming in that they had a chance to be on the right side of history. I would have had Booker T shown up and gotten involved in Shane's feud with Kurt Angle...as well as let Booker T make it to the finals of, if not win, the King of the Ring with Shane's help. Prior to the Austin/Jericho/Benoit, possibly even a week or 2 before it, we would've seen Shane individually proposition each guy and offered to help Austin retain as well as Jericho/Benoit finally beat Austin and become the world champion. Shane would get involved in Austin's match to help him beat someone, only for Austin to deliver a stunner and beat him down (thereby effectively rebuffing Shane's offer), Jericho would verbally run down Shane and say he'd never get involved with a McMahon, and ultimately it would seem like Shane and Benoit were reigniting their prior alliance from Summer 2000 (this would have also worked since Benoit was feuding with Angle at the time as well). Then at KOTR, I would have had Shane get involved so that Jericho won the title, and it was revealed Jericho was actually aligned with Shane. Then at the next PPV (in July 2001, but which would not have been InVasion) Jericho (on behalf of Shane McMahon) would have faced off against Austin (on behalf of Vince McMahon), with the stipulation that if Jericho retained Shane McMahon would be given creative control to run WCW segments during Raw and Smackdown. Whereas if Austin won, he would regain the title and Shane's WCW vision would be banned. In the weeks leading up to this we would have seen Shane having phone conversations announcing that certain wrestlers (e.g., DDP, Buff Bagwell, The New Blood, etc.) would be among those joining his new promotion once Jericho defeated Austin. A critical part of this would be to still have Shane and Jericho being the faces to Austin/McMahon's heels in the way in which WCW/Shane were originally presented. The prospect of these new superstars coming to the WWF is a positive in fans eyes. That's also important for the longevity of the storyline because roles need to gradually change. The main event would have seen interference from Shane, Vince, Booker T, and Kurt Angle...but ultimately DDP would have come from the crowd and delivered the diamond cutter to secure Jericho's victory (similar to how Booker T actually debuted at KOTR in 2001). The next night few shows would have worked in the same way the real InVasion storyline went on...guys like Storm, Palumbo/O'haire, etc. debuted and interfered in WWF matches. The first WCW main event would have been DDP vs. Booker T in a match to determine would would face Chris Jericho in a match to determine the new, and 1st, WCW champion. I would have had Austin/Angle interfere in this match in the same manner they did with the Booker T/Bagwell match. As well as had other WCW/WWF guys fight it out. Ultimately, the ECW component of the InVasion would have played out ht same way with SummerSlam serving as the the inaugural brawl ppv. The big storyline would have also been which side is The Rock going to join. Instead of the main event being Austin/Jericho/Undertaker/Kane/Angle vs. Booker T/DDP/Dudleys/Rhyno(like InVasion)...it would have been Austin/Undertaker/The Rock/Angle/Big Show vs. Jericho/Booker T/DDP/Buff Bagwell/Rhyno...with Big Show turning on the WWF to join the Alliance in secure them the victory. By this point, a lot of the storylines and defections would have been pushed back by a month tor two. The InVasion was in full swing by late June, whereas here it's not really going until Mid August. At the October PPV, Kurt Angle would defect to the Alliance. Kurt would reveal the next night on Raw that he was sick of playing second fiddle to The Rock and Austin by Vince, and that Shane and WCW's new president made him an offer he simply couldn't refuse. There would be a lot of references to this new WCW president, who would be teased to be revealed at Survivor Series. Survivor Series would also feature the real vengeance Main Event with the identical undisputed title unification match, except Ric Flair would have debuted (revealed to be the WCW president) to assist Jericho with winning and becoming the first undisputed champion. I think December could have had a War Games or Hell in a Cell type of match between Team WWF vs. Team WCW. Royal Rumble would have still seen McMahon vs. Flair, HHH return and win the Rumble, etc. A lot of December 2001 and onwards would be similar to Nov 2001 and onwards in which it would have been WWE-Vince vs. WCW-Flair. One thing I never liked about the Vince/Flair storyline is that they made Flair seem like he was this kind redneck style millionaire (look at the Raw Christmas party episode), rather than how he was portrayed everywhere else the rest of his career - so that would be another tweak. Another change I think that would have been great, and would have saved Booker T, would be to have down DDP's proposed People's Champion vs People's Champion feud between The Rock and DDP. In contrast to Vince McMahon injecting the nWo to kill the WWF, Vince would cut a promo that he was going to kill WCW once and for all in the same way it had been done before...by unleashing the nWo. nWo would debut at No Way Out and do pretty much the same stuff they did anyways, proving to be a rogue faction that would ultimately align themselves with WCW. Then at WrestleMania it's WWE vs. WCW once and for all with whoever wins the most matches taking control. The card doesn't need to really change (I copied the order of the matches and somehow it works perfectly): RVD (face in the alliance) defeats Regal (or whoever) to become IC Champion: 1-0 Alliance DDP defeats Christian for EU Championship: 2-0 Alliance Maven defeats a variety of WWF and WCW wrestlers: 2-1 Alliance Angle defeats Kane: 3-1 Alliance Undertaker defeats Flair: 3-2 Alliance Edge defeats Booker T: 3-3 Tie Austin beats Hall/Nash: 4-3 WWE (this also becomes a much bigger moments because the WWF finally takes the lead) Billy/Chuck defeat a mix of teams: 4-4 Tie Rock beats Hogans: 5-4 WWF Jazz beats Trish & Lita: 5-5 Tie HHH beats Jericho 6-5 WWE wins. This doesn't really change much with the draft because Vince regained control of Raw within the first month of the draft. With a surplus of talent that Vince acquires he decides its best to split the show into 2 separate brands that will be managed by two commissioners, both being former WWF commissioners. Smackdown will be drafted and run by Mick Foley...and Raw will be drafted and run by...Shawn Michaels. Ultimately HBK has to step down as commissioner in order to face HHH, at which point Bischoff would enter the picture. What's crazy is that this booking doesn't require any different wrestlers being in the company at a different time, and all the ultimate outcomes of WWE stay the same. All it does is just rework a lot of poor intermediary points. With Rock, Austin, Undertaker, and Edge's victory's at WM 18, the WWF actually defeats the real WCW in a way that manners. WrestleMania X8 also takes on greater significance, specifically the HHH/Jericho match (which didn't really have legs to it other than the HHH/Stephanie sub-storyline) is now about WWE's White Knight (the returning HHH) defeating the man who is essentially responsible for all of this (Chris Jericho, who becomes an even bigger heel than he was in 2002). This also would have made a lot more sense among the HHH vs. Sting match in that HHH would have been the guy who ended WCW 13 years before Sting arrived, and now he was ultimately going to get to do it. Sounds good, would definitely have worked better but I would have 100% assumed Shane and Jericho (WCW side) could not at all have been faces against the WWF. The fans were too loyal.
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 17, 2020 6:21:22 GMT -5
As a person of unusual size, I'm telling you now. If an obese individual trips and falls to the dang floor it can do serious damage. For someone Rikishi's size to fall even 10 feet onto a protective surface? It's gonna muk him up. I wouldn't swap him. The only other person in that ring who might be willing to take a bump like that was Angle (remember his moonsault off the cage?) and as he was slated to win, they couldn't have him be the one. That said, Rikishi being in the HOF seems a bit odd of a choice. I'd honestly say it's more of a dynastic thing than really him deserving it himself. Oh, and yeah. That heel run was garbage. He was funny with Too Cool. As a heel? He was laughable. Not to mention the Superfly Splash off the top of the cage and the huge belly-to-belly off the top rope he took at KOTR 2000.
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TheXtremisT
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This is the way
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 17, 2020 6:20:33 GMT -5
Rikishi as the driver was clearly a result of WWE having created one of the biggest opportunities to create a mega heel at the time and having no idea of who it should be. If you go back and watch Raws and Smackdowns in succession you can even start to see where they saw Rikishi as a failure and had to add Triple H to the story. One Raw they just randomly started having Rikishi change his story, I believe it was after No Mercy. I remember it was supposed to be Gunn but he got hurt, and would have probably ended up being the second time they tried to strap a rocket to him and failed after not turning him into anything after KOTR. I always though Austins hit and run driver should have either been Angle (the timing was perfect Angle debuted that same night and had become a mega star since) and then have Triple H as the accomplice or just have Triple H as the guy who ran over Austin. As far as who could have replaced Rikishi in HIAC, I would say Kane would have been better. Guy was in the title picture for a few months before until his feud with Jericho and would have fit in well. Jericho and Benoit could have fought for the IC title a month early and Rikishi could have gone on to dance with Too Cool some more. I always thought they could have written Test into the storyline instead of Rikishi, but the problem is that his star dimmed by the end of 1999 and he turned heel in early 2000. Triple H stole Stephanie from Test. There was no resolution for it, Test basically got cuckholded and dropped. It became about Trips vs Vince for taking his daughter and turning her on her father. People grew tired of him and they threw him into the T&A tag-team to just do "something" for him. If they had kept him strong and sympathetic, my storyline as follows would have worked: Test should have got his revenge on Triple H in some form or fashion, whether in a month-long feud, or trying to eliminate DX to get through them to Triple H. So fast forward to September 2000, Austin comes back and demands to know who ran him over. Road Dogg/X-Pac/Billy Gunn as a favour to Triple H, supply him with CCTV footage of the incident. The very grainy footage shows a tall man with long, fair hair and a goatee in the driver's seat. They insinuate it was Test, when in actual fact it was Triple H (because in pixellated video they look similar), just to get the heat off Trips. Austin then tries to whoop Test's ass, but Test remains strong. Until he has an alibi in Stephanie and then it is revealed it was Triple H all along.
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on May 14, 2020 13:49:49 GMT -5
Edge/Christian or Big Show weren't compatible with the Smackdown stage but Regal was? So strange.
Would also count X-Pac, APA, Test and Albert as ones who should have been with their theme music on that stage.
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